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Blessings of Abraham a transferrable promise?

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Heard a sermon about this topic and was wondering what you guys thought.  Abraham was given blessing that he tried to give to Ishmael by his own work and God said no, it was going to Isaac even though he was the second born.  I've heard in that culture in those days that the first born was always entitled to the inheritances of the father.  We go down the lineage a little and see that the blessing was supposed to go to Esau goes to the second born Jacob.  Adam is the first man and Jesus is the second man and he gets the blessing(or is the blessing).  Could it be possible that the blessings/promises of Israel could be transferrable to the church? 

 

 

*** Removed link to SDA teaching ***

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Heard a sermon about this topic and was wondering what you guys thought.  Abraham was given blessing that he tried to give to Ishmael by his own work and God said no, it was going to Isaac even though he was the second born.  I've heard in that culture in those days that the first born was always entitled to the inheritances of the father.  We go down the lineage a little and see that the blessing was supposed to go to Esau goes to the second born Jacob.  Adam is the first man and Jesus is the second man and he gets the blessing(or is the blessing).  Could it be possible that the blessings/promises of Israel could be transferrable to the church? 

 

No.  You need understand that the blessing of Abraham and the blessings that God promised to national Israel are not same thing.   Gentiles are already included in the blessing of salvation promised to Abraham.

 

The blessings given to Abraham's physical descendents are not transferrable to the Church.  The Church and Israel are radically separate in the New Testament.  The NT never mixes the two.   There is no transfer of blessing.   The Church may participate in how God has blessed Israel, but the blessings are not transferred.

 

The notion that God has transferred the blessings of Israel to the church is root of over 1,700 years of ant-semtic persecution by the Church agasint the Jews.   It has no place in biblical Christianity and should trampled underfoot for the satanci teaching that it is.

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Could it be possible that the blessings/promises of Israel could be transferrable to the church? 

 

Who were the first "church" members, Jews or Gentiles?

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Could it be possible that the blessings/promises of Israel could be transferrable to the church?

Who were the first "church" members, Jews or Gentiles?

Well the first people of God were gentiles. Abraham was a gentile called out from the world to represent God. But that wasn't your question so I will answer it. The first church consisted of jews.

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Heard a sermon about this topic and was wondering what you guys thought. Abraham was given blessing that he tried to give to Ishmael by his own work and God said no, it was going to Isaac even though he was the second born. I've heard in that culture in those days that the first born was always entitled to the inheritances of the father. We go down the lineage a little and see that the blessing was supposed to go to Esau goes to the second born Jacob. Adam is the first man and Jesus is the second man and he gets the blessing(or is the blessing). Could it be possible that the blessings/promises of Israel could be transferrable to the church?

No. You need understand that the blessing of Abraham and the blessings that God promised to national Israel are not same thing. Gentiles are already included in the blessing of salvation promised to Abraham.

The blessings given to Abraham's physical descendents are not transferrable to the Church. The Church and Israel are radically separate in the New Testament. The NT never mixes the two. There is no transfer of blessing. The Church may participate in how God has blessed Israel, but the blessings are not transferred.

The notion that God has transferred the blessings of Israel to the church is root of over 1,700 years of ant-semtic persecution by the Church agasint the Jews. It has no place in biblical Christianity and should trampled underfoot for the satanci teaching that it is.

I don't see it as antisemitism because I don't have any issues with people of Jewish heritage. What I don't see is the importance given to them as God's people when we are all equal. Could you list the promises that are only applicable to Israel? I'm not claiming to know anything but how can they still be heirs to those promises if they were conditional? If Jesus is the only way are Messianic Jews the only heirs because the Jews I know don't even recognize them for accepting Jesus. Thanks

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Some of the blessings to Abraham are transferable, the others are not.

 

God promised Abraham in a Covenant; a seed, a land, and a blessing.

 

The seed was through Issac and Jacob (not transferable) Gen 17:15-19

The land was for this specific group (not transferable) Gen 15:18-20

The blessing later came through Jesus Christ (all who come to Him are included)  Gen 12:3

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Heard a sermon about this topic and was wondering what you guys thought. Abraham was given blessing that he tried to give to Ishmael by his own work and God said no, it was going to Isaac even though he was the second born. I've heard in that culture in those days that the first born was always entitled to the inheritances of the father. We go down the lineage a little and see that the blessing was supposed to go to Esau goes to the second born Jacob. Adam is the first man and Jesus is the second man and he gets the blessing(or is the blessing). Could it be possible that the blessings/promises of Israel could be transferrable to the church?

No. You need understand that the blessing of Abraham and the blessings that God promised to national Israel are not same thing. Gentiles are already included in the blessing of salvation promised to Abraham.

The blessings given to Abraham's physical descendents are not transferrable to the Church. The Church and Israel are radically separate in the New Testament. The NT never mixes the two. There is no transfer of blessing. The Church may participate in how God has blessed Israel, but the blessings are not transferred.

The notion that God has transferred the blessings of Israel to the church is root of over 1,700 years of ant-semtic persecution by the Church agasint the Jews. It has no place in biblical Christianity and should trampled underfoot for the satanci teaching that it is.

I don't see it as antisemitism because I don't have any issues with people of Jewish heritage. What I don't see is the importance given to them as God's people when we are all equal. Could you list the promises that are only applicable to Israel? I'm not claiming to know anything but how can they still be heirs to those promises if they were conditional? If Jesus is the only way are Messianic Jews the only heirs because the Jews I know don't even recognize them for accepting Jesus. Thanks

 

Unfortunately, 'replacement theology', is anti-semitic. Of course, there are verying degrees. 

 

The basic premise of replacement theology is that due to rejection of Jesus, the Jewish people have lost all of Gods blessings, and these blessings are given instead to the Church.

 

From there, it must be added that God gave a covenant to the Jewish people which had both blessings and curses. While the church, in replacement theology, claims the blessings given to the Jewish people, but rejects having received the curses, and so the Jewish people get only the curses.  When Replacement theology separates the blessing tranferred to the church, and the curses kept by the Jewish people, we have a view that the Jewish people deserve being cursed. From there we have those who go further and believe that the Jewish people are eternally cursed, unsavable, of the synagogue of Satan, etc. It gets even uglier from there. At the end of this idea, we have such groups as the KKK, Nazis, Islam, all claiming to have replaced the Jewish people, and are now the Chosen people. British Israelism, claims that they are Israel and modern Jews are usurpers. Black Israel, also claims to be Israel, and the modern Jews are false. 

 

Scripture, both OT and NT, speaks of eternal promises to the Jewish people, so Replacement Theology essentially says God who made these promises to the Jewish people, didn't really mean it.    

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Heard a sermon about this topic and was wondering what you guys thought. Abraham was given blessing that he tried to give to Ishmael by his own work and God said no, it was going to Isaac even though he was the second born. I've heard in that culture in those days that the first born was always entitled to the inheritances of the father. We go down the lineage a little and see that the blessing was supposed to go to Esau goes to the second born Jacob. Adam is the first man and Jesus is the second man and he gets the blessing(or is the blessing). Could it be possible that the blessings/promises of Israel could be transferrable to the church?

No. You need understand that the blessing of Abraham and the blessings that God promised to national Israel are not same thing. Gentiles are already included in the blessing of salvation promised to Abraham.

The blessings given to Abraham's physical descendents are not transferrable to the Church. The Church and Israel are radically separate in the New Testament. The NT never mixes the two. There is no transfer of blessing. The Church may participate in how God has blessed Israel, but the blessings are not transferred.

The notion that God has transferred the blessings of Israel to the church is root of over 1,700 years of ant-semtic persecution by the Church agasint the Jews. It has no place in biblical Christianity and should trampled underfoot for the satanci teaching that it is.

I don't see it as antisemitism because I don't have any issues with people of Jewish heritage. What I don't see is the importance given to them as God's people when we are all equal. Could you list the promises that are only applicable to Israel? I'm not claiming to know anything but how can they still be heirs to those promises if they were conditional? If Jesus is the only way are Messianic Jews the only heirs because the Jews I know don't even recognize them for accepting Jesus. Thanks

 

If God's promises to Israel were transferred to the Church, then God can't be trusted to keep His promises.  If God decided not to keep His promises to Israel, his chosen people and transferred His promises to someone else, why should WE trust God to keep His promises to us?

 

God is faithful to keep all of the promises He made to Israel.  The issue is not about how important the Jews are; the issue is God's integrity.  God keeps His promises to Israel to prove His faithfulness not because Jews are more important.

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Could it be possible that the blessings/promises of Israel could be transferrable to the church?

Who were the first "church" members, Jews or Gentiles?
Well the first people of God were gentiles. Abraham was a gentile called out from the world to represent God.

 

Nice try. But there could not have been a Jew-Gentile split before there were Jews. And we're talking about the promise of Israel, the inheritance given to Abraham's descendants through Isaac and Jacob/Israel.

 

 

But that wasn't your question so I will answer it. The first church consisted of jews.

 

Correct.

 

There was no "transferrance" away from the Jews (Israel), for the original church was a remnant of Jewish believers. The Gentiles who believed were later grafted in to this covenant.

 

Jesus is the mediator of a new Covenant, not a tranferer of an older covenant.

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I don't remember Abraham promised eternal life....

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The final promise to the Jews was unconditional. God does not lie, nor does he break his promises. Unfulfilled prophecies have yet to come.

 

23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

 

Zechariah 8

 

It's not happened yet - it has to be.

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Of course Ishmael was the son of a slave-concubine, not of the wife, Sarah.  Galatians 4 discusses this somewhat at length.

 

What you are trying to do, I think, is to draw parallels, which would be called typology, a legitimate way to include in studying the Bible.  A "type" is a prophecy, not by word, but by illustration, like when Ezekiel cut off his hair & did various things to it to symbolize the destruction coming to Israel.  The Lord Jesus is said to be a prophet like Moses, so parallels are rightly drawn between the two.  One may see in Moses second coming a type of Christ's 2nd coming.  Moses took a Gentile wife, Christ took the Church (predominantly Gentile) as his wife, and so forth.

 

So keep up the good study.

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Gal 3:29 - " And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs to the promise."

 

Through Christ all nations are to be blessed.

 

The promises to Abraham are dual, both physical (the descendants of Abraham) and spiritual (the followers of Christ)

 

Spiritual Israel of God is the church.

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Gal 3:29 - " And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs to the promise."

 

Through Christ all nations are to be blessed.

 

The promises to Abraham are dual, both physical (the descendants of Abraham) and spiritual (the followers of Christ)

 

Spiritual Israel of God is the church.

 

:thumbsup:

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I don't remember Abraham promised eternal life....

The Gospel was preached to Abraham (Gal. 3).   Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness (Rom. 4)  Our faith is credited to us as righteousness the same as Abraham (Rom. 4)

 

So yeah, He had eternal life.

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Gal 3:29 - " And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs to the promise."

 

Through Christ all nations are to be blessed.

 

The promises to Abraham are dual, both physical (the descendants of Abraham) and spiritual (the followers of Christ)

 

Spiritual Israel of God is the church.

No, the Church is not a spiritual Israel.   The NT never spiritualizes israel to refer to the Church.  The Church is NEVER called Israel.   Israel is Israel.  the Church is the Church.  They are radically separate in the NT.

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...Christ took the Church (predominantly Gentile) as his wife, and so forth.

 

Actually, that isn't exactly accurate. The Church became Gentile in nature. She did not start that way. She was originally 100% Jewish.

 

Acts 2, the coming of the Holy Spirit occurred while the Jews were celebrating the Feast of Weeks, the Feast of the Lord where the people celebrate the coming of the Law. See the parallel?

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Spiritual Israel of God is the church.

 

"Spiritual Israel" is not found in the Scriptures anywhere.

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Blessings Remantrob

      God Bless you & All Praise & Glory to our Lord,God!!!! Heres where it just seems to get all complicated when there is nothing complicated about it at all............God is Faithful & True to His Promises,,,the Blessings & Promises He has made in Covenant with Israel shall stand forever,just as He said ....His New Covenant promises & Blessings He has for His Church through Christ will stand forever.....two seperate ,non-transferrable Blessings for two different peoples...............yet,in Christ,,,,the Promise & Guarantee Seal of Redemption is available for everyone......Oh,but for the Grace of God,Halleluliah!

                                                                                                                                               With love-in Christ,Kwik

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...God is Faithful & True to His Promises,,,

 

the Blessings & Promises He has made in Covenant with Israel shall stand forever,just as He said ....

His New Covenant promises & Blessings He has for His Church through Christ will stand forever.....

 

two seperate ,non-transferrable Blessings for two different peoples...............

 

yet,in Christ,,,,the Promise & Guarantee Seal of Redemption is available for everyone......

Oh,but for the Grace of God,Halleluliah!

 

Amen!

 

Why desire the Covenant God made with Israel?

 

IS not Jesus awesome enough?

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Gal 3:29 - " And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs to the promise."

 

Through Christ all nations are to be blessed.

 

The promises to Abraham are dual, both physical (the descendants of Abraham) and spiritual (the followers of Christ)

 

Spiritual Israel of God is the church.

No, the Church is not a spiritual Israel.   The NT never spiritualizes israel to refer to the Church.  The Church is NEVER called Israel.   Israel is Israel.  the Church is the Church.  They are radically separate in the NT.

 

 

In Gal 6: 15-16 - we see the church being referred to as the Israel of God.

 

We know an assembly, a body of people, a congregation, is called a church.

 

In Acts 7:38 we see the people of Israel under Moses being referred to the " church in the wilderness"

 

Just as Israel was called out of Egypt, we in today's world have been called out of the sinning ways of the world by following Christ through the church He created on Pentecost.

 

God used physical Israel to help Him bring forth Spiritual Israel-paralleling His plan of salvation for mankind.

 

Just as in Ezekiel 36 where God's spirit is promised to Israel, Ephesians 2:22 describes the indwelling of God's spirit to the church.

 

Israel was God's first born Ex 4:22

 

And the New Testament church is referred to as God's first born Heb 12:23

 

The church has an important role to mankind-first by receiving the physical blessings in the OT and then by receiving the spiritual blessings in the NT through Christ.

Edited by fruitfull77
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In Gal 6: 15-16 - we see the church being referred to as the Israel of God.

Can you prove that?

13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

When Paul says, "And those who will walk by this rule," he is referring to the Gentile believers, the uncircumcised. When he says, "the Israel of God," he is referring to the Jewish believers, the circumcised.

 

We know an assembly, a body of people, a congregation, is called a church.

The word "church" is not the correct translation, though.

 

Origin:

before 900; Middle English chir(i)che, Old English cir(i)ce ≪ Greek kȳri(a)kón (dôma) the Lord's (house), neuter of kȳriakós of the master, equivalent to kȳ́ri(os) master (kŷr(os) power + -ios noun suffix) + -akos, variant of -ikos -ic; akin to Dutch kerk, German Kirche, Old Norse kirkja. See kirk

Source

So the word "church" is a poor replacement for the word "assembly" or the word "congregation,"

 

In Acts 7:38 we see the people of Israel under Moses being referred to the " church in the wilderness"

No, they are called a "congregation," not "the Lord's house".

 

Just as Israel was called out of Egypt, we in today's world have been called out of the sinning ways of the world by following Christ through the church He created on Pentecost.

Pentecost was the Greek word for the Jewish Feast of Weeks, when the Jews celebrated the giving of the Law from Mt. Sinai.

The ones the Holy Spirit fell on were all Torah-observing Jews.

 

God used physical Israel to help Him bring forth Spiritual Israel-paralleling His plan of salvation for mankind.

Again, there is no "spiritual Israel." Neither was God creating a "parallel plan." There was always only one plan. There is a huge difference between a foreshadow and a parallel.

 

Just as in Ezekiel 36 where God's spirit is promised to Israel, Ephesians 2:22 describes the indwelling of God's spirit to the church.

This verse has nothing to do with a "spiritual Israel" nor does it mention anything about replacing one thing for another.

 

Israel was God's first born Ex 4:22

 

And the New Testament church is referred to as God's first born Heb 12:23

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

A better argument can be made for the author of Hebrews to be referring to the the people of God from past who are in heaven than to the people of God here on the earth.

The church has an important role to mankind-first by receiving the physical blessings in the OT and then by receiving the spiritual blessings in the NT through Christ.

In Romans 3, Paul made a distinction between the Jews who had been given and kept the word of God and the Gentile believers.

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In Gal 6: 15-16 - we see the church being referred to as the Israel of God.

Can you prove that?

13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

When Paul says, "And those who will walk by this rule," he is referring to the Gentile believers, the uncircumcised. When he says, "the Israel of God," he is referring to the Jewish believers, the circumcised.

 

We know an assembly, a body of people, a congregation, is called a church.

The word "church" is not the correct translation, though.

 

Origin:

before 900; Middle English chir(i)che, Old English cir(i)ce ≪ Greek kȳri(a)kón (dôma) the Lord's (house), neuter of kȳriakós of the master, equivalent to kȳ́ri(os) master (kŷr(os) power + -ios noun suffix) + -akos, variant of -ikos -ic; akin to Dutch kerk, German Kirche, Old Norse kirkja. See kirk

Source

So the word "church" is a poor replacement for the word "assembly" or the word "congregation,"

 

In Acts 7:38 we see the people of Israel under Moses being referred to the " church in the wilderness"

No, they are called a "congregation," not "the Lord's house".

 

Just as Israel was called out of Egypt, we in today's world have been called out of the sinning ways of the world by following Christ through the church He created on Pentecost.

Pentecost was the Greek word for the Jewish Feast of Weeks, when the Jews celebrated the giving of the Law from Mt. Sinai.

The ones the Holy Spirit fell on were all Torah-observing Jews.

 

God used physical Israel to help Him bring forth Spiritual Israel-paralleling His plan of salvation for mankind.

Again, there is no "spiritual Israel." Neither was God creating a "parallel plan." There was always only one plan. There is a huge difference between a foreshadow and a parallel.

 

Just as in Ezekiel 36 where God's spirit is promised to Israel, Ephesians 2:22 describes the indwelling of God's spirit to the church.

This verse has nothing to do with a "spiritual Israel" nor does it mention anything about replacing one thing for another.

 

Israel was God's first born Ex 4:22

 

And the New Testament church is referred to as God's first born Heb 12:23

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

A better argument can be made for the author of Hebrews to be referring to the the people of God from past who are in heaven than to the people of God here on the earth.

The church has an important role to mankind-first by receiving the physical blessings in the OT and then by receiving the spiritual blessings in the NT through Christ.

In Romans 3, Paul made a distinction between the Jews who had been given and kept the word of God and the Gentile believers.

 

 

In Gal 6 the subject matter is the Church and Paul is addressing gentile converts. Israel covers all people both Jews and gentiles

The rule to walk by is from the previous verse that God doesn't care if you are circumcised or not, you are all one in Christ.

Church is the english translation of the Greek word ekklesia generally means " called out" but commonly used to indicate an assembly as used in Acts 19:32,39

Church is used in the original KJV bible referring to the called out ones with Moses in the desert.

The Holy Spirit was available for all people Jews and gentiles.

There is no difference between Jew or Greek in the NT -righteousness comes from having faith and keeping His Law

Israel means one who prevails with God and the NT church is expected to honor that definition

 

What difference do you think there is between the Jewish believers in the NT church and the gentile believers?

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Heard a sermon about this topic and was wondering what you guys thought.  Abraham was given blessing that he tried to give to Ishmael by his own work and God said no, it was going to Isaac even though he was the second born.  I've heard in that culture in those days that the first born was always entitled to the inheritances of the father.  We go down the lineage a little and see that the blessing was supposed to go to Esau goes to the second born Jacob.  Adam is the first man and Jesus is the second man and he gets the blessing(or is the blessing).  Could it be possible that the blessings/promises of Israel could be transferrable to the church? 

 

 

*** Removed link to SDA teaching ***

Hi Rob,

 

Actually, the promises to Abraham are given to the Gentiles through Christ. Many Christians don't understand this because they have been tught the "Heavenly Destiny" doctrine. The believers "hope" is not to go live in Heaven, it is to spend eternity in the restored land. God promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob the land as an everlasting possession.

 

14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. (Gen 13:14-15 KJV)

 

Then it was given to Isaac,

 

KJV  Genesis 26:1 And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.

2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (Gen 26:1-5 KJV)

 

It was also given to Jacob

 

KJV  Genesis 28:1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.

2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.

3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;

4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham. (Gen 28:1-4 KJV)

 

This phrase the "blessing of Abraham" is tied directly to the inheritance of the Land. The phrase is used only twice in the Bible here in Genesis and Paul uses it to apply the "Blessing of Abraham" to the Gentiles.

 

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Gal 3:13-14 KJV)

 

The Gentiles receive the "blessing of Abraham" (the land) through faith in Christ. God promised the land to Abraham and his Seed. The Jews understood this to mean that they as the seed of Abraham would inherit the promises. The Jews understood Seed as a collective group, themselves, however, Paul says that the Jews misunderstood. He argues that when God said the promises were to Abraham and his Seed, He meant it singularly and not in the plural and that that Seed is Christ.

 

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:16 KJV)

 

The land was promised to Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Christ. It is through faith in Christ that the Gentiles receive the inheritance which is the land promised to Abraham.

 

I've written a paper on this subject if you'd like to read more. I go into much greater detail and use a lot Scripture to show that this is indeed what the Bible teaches. The Paper is "The Kingdom of God (A Biblical perspective)"

 

I hope this helps and let me know if I can answer any questions you have.

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In Gal 6 the subject matter is the Church and Paul is addressing gentile converts. ...

 

What difference do you think there is between the Jewish believers in the NT church and the gentile believers?

 

The difference is what is described in Romans 11 - being a natural branch versus a wild branch. Natural branches and wild branches have different functions to the olive tree.

 

Yes, we are all under the New Covenant of Jesus' blood. But this covenant was a new covenant, not an extension of any previous covenant, including the covenant with Israel.

 

The Jewish believers are under both covenants. We Gentiles are not.

 

 

The Jewish believers were trying to force the Gentiles into the Abrahamic covenant, which is why they were pushing them to get circumcised. Circumcision was a sign of the Covenant with Abraham. Look it up, it's there!

 

Paul was telling the Gentile believers they did not need to be circumcised to be a part of the covenant becausethe Gentiles were under a New Covenant, not the old one which required circumcision.

 

 

The covenant with Abraham that was passed on to Isaac and Jacob (Israel) and his descendants also included an inheritance to the land. Did Paul or anyone else ever advocate for the Gentile believers to possess the land of Judea (what it was called back then)?

 

 

Israel covers all people both Jews and gentiles

 

No, it does not. That is an interpretation you and whomever you learned this theology from put it there.

 

 

The rule to walk by is from the previous verse that God doesn't care if you are circumcised or not, you are all one in Christ.

 

Not disagreeing with you there.

 

That still does not make the New Covenant the same as the Old Covenant, nor does it make Gentiles a part of the Old Covenant. (Why do you want to be a part of the Old Covenant anyway?)

 

 

Church is the english translation of the Greek word ekklesia generally means " called out" but commonly used to indicate an assembly as used in Acts 19:32,39

 

The Lexicon and the Etymology of the word "church" disagree with you on this.

 

 

Church is used in the original KJV bible referring to the called out ones with Moses in the desert.

 

I do not use the KJV translation as my final authority. The word "church" does not mean "assembly" nor "called out", it means "Lord's house", which is an entirely different meaning.

 

 

The Holy Spirit was available for all people Jews and gentiles.

 

The Holy Spirit was not included in Abraham's covenant.

 

 

There is no difference between Jew or Greek in the NT -righteousness comes from having faith and keeping His Law

 

The OP is about the blessings of Abraham transferring over to "the church". The issue of there being no difference between Jew and Greek is a matter of the New Covenant under Jesus, not the Old Covenant blessings of Abraham.

 

 

Israel means one who prevails with God and the NT church is expected to honor that definition

 

Explain this one with Scriptural references please?

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