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Luke 16:19-31 The Rich Man and Lazarus

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#1
DRS81

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Blessings everyone. Do you guys think this is proof that after we die we are to be with the Lord right away?

 

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
 



#2
ayin jade

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Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I think that is a greater statement that we are with Him immediately upon death.



#3
shiloh357

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Do you guys think this is proof that after we die we are to be with the Lord right away?

 

I don't think this parable proves that.  I do believe we go to be with the Lord when we die if we are saved, but this parable doesn't prove that point.

 

The reason I don't think it does is because of the phrase, "Abraham's Bosom."    Bear with me.  

 

Abraham's Bosom is an ancient Jewish eschatalogical term rooted in ancient Jewish culture.  It was customary in Jesus' day for people to throw banguets at the home in the "front yard" so to speak.   When an important man held a banget feast, he would do it outside of his home so every one could see who was in attendance.  The host would invite the people he thought were the most "important" people to be at the feast. 

 

The more important a person was, the greater the honor it was to be invited.  This was also a slight against his enemies who were not invited, thus suggesting that they were not worthy to attend and those in attendance were more honorable.

 

Now, at this banquet, the person to the right of the host at the table was the most honored of all the guests in attendance.  So, you have the most honored and important people in town, and of those the most important and honored person was to the right of the host.  The guest would lean left symbolically into the "bosom" of the host.  It is strange to us, but that is how they did it. 

 

The phrase, "Abraham's Bosom" thus indicates a great banquet taking place in the world to come in ancient Jewish theology.   The rich man looks up from hell and sees the Lazarus the begger leaning into Abraham's bosom.   This would be a very poignant picture for the Jews of Jesus day and for them it would be a jaw-dropping twist to the parable.

 

IN those days, riches were a sign of God's honor and blessing on your life.  Rich people were assumed to be more religious, more Torah observant and thus more godly and blessed.   The begger Lazarus, by comparison is viewed as a pariah, an ungodly man who bore the emblem of God's cursing and contempt.   In traditional Jewish thinking, it was Lazarus who would go to hell and the rich man who should be in heaven.

 

But in a shocking reversal of fortune, Lazarus is seen at table with Abraham.  This table would be where the greatest and most honored Jews  to have ever lived would be seated   But here is Lazarus seated in Abraham's Bosom.   It means Lazarus would be the greatest Jew that ever lived!    For the original hearers, this was alarming. 

 

Jesus contrasts the opulent wealth of the rich man who was used to the best seats at the synagogues, who would have been the guest of honor at all of the banquets and now he looks up and sees this beggar that he cared nothing for as the guest of honor at the most important banquet table in the universe.   And now it is the rich man who is destitute and hopeless and Lazarus who is forever honored.



#4
DRS81

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The reason I don't think it does is because of the phrase, "Abraham's Bosom."    Bear with me..

 

But there are well-knit, worded descriptions specifically about the afterlife...

 

1. vs 22 - begger died/angels carried him/rich man died and buried
2. vs 23 - hell/torment
3. vs 24 - agony in fire

4. vs 28 - torment
5. vs 30 - if someone from the dead goes to them
6. vs 31 - they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead



#5
shiloh357

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The reason I don't think it does is because of the phrase, "Abraham's Bosom."    Bear with me..

 

But there are well-knit, worded descriptions specifically about the afterlife...

 

1. vs 22 - begger died/angels carried him/rich man died and buried
2. vs 23 - hell/torment
3. vs 24 - agony in fire

4. vs 28 - torment
5. vs 30 - if someone from the dead goes to them
6. vs 31 - they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead

 

I understand that , but  Abraham's Bosom is a future event. Jesus is playing off Jewish eschatology in using that term.  He is making a broader point.  The great banquet of the ages,at the end of time is what is in view, and Jesus is saying that when that event happened the rich man looked up from hell.   There is no time frame given except that we know that Jesus is working off their notions of a future event.

 

This story doesn't teach that we go to hell or heaven the minute we die; that is not the point of the parable at all.  If you want to make that case that we go to heaven or hell the minute we die, there are better better Scriptures to use to that end.



#6
DRS81

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This story doesn't teach that we go to hell or heaven the minute we die; that is not the point of the parable at all.

 

I will agree with you.

The fact that it is a parable gives us a clue.

Some parables speak to the heart as a metaphor to learn moral lessons and do not give time frames?

http://dictionary.re...wse/parable?s=t

Is the lesson here that we cannot serve both God and money?



#7
bopeep1909

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When Jesus was on the Cross their were two thieves,one on each side of Him.One was repentant and the other thief was not.Jesus said the the thief that was repentant "today you will be with me in Paradise".That indicates that after we die we immediately are in either heaven or hades.



#8
DRS81

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When Jesus was on the Cross their were two thieves,one on each side of Him.One was repentant and the other thief was not.Jesus said the the thief that was repentant "today you will be with me in Paradise".That indicates that after we die we immediately are in either heaven or hades.

 

My uncle once told me that the problem he has with God is that a rapist and a murderer who repents on death row can go to heaven. I told him that the forgiveness of God is different than man. :grin:



#9
ProphecyKid

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Blessings everyone. Do you guys think this is proof that after we die we are to be with the Lord right away?

 

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
 

 

This parable is very much misunderstood. People use this parable to validate their beliefs instead of trying to realize what the parable is about. In all of Jesus' parables, the story was to illustrate a deeper spiritual point and not the actual story of the parable. For instance, in the parable where the employer had people work for him and some of his workers started earlier, some started later and some very late and at the end of the day he gave each one of them the same amount of money. I heard an anchor on Fox News use that parable to try to say that this parable shows that the Employer has ever right to pay any amount he chooses regardless of the time his workers have worked and unions and so are not needed. Well this parable is the same thing.

 

This parable was not to show us what happens when a man dies. Jesus had just finished telling a parable about a steward who was unjust and wasted the goods given to him. This parable is also similar.

 

There is a rich man here, who felt like he had everything, and was selfish, self sufficient and did not want to share. Then you have the poor man who had a desire for just a little bit of food and was begging to be fed. The rich man is a representation of the Jewish Nation who were blessed with the gospel and who initially were supposed to convert the nations around them. Instead they got self righteous and felt the gospel was only for them and no one else. The poor man represented the gentile nations at that time. Here is the account of when a gentile woman approached Jesus:

 

Mat 15:22  And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 
Mat 15:23  But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 
Mat 15:24  But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 
Mat 15:25  Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 
Mat 15:26  But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. 
Mat 15:27  And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
 
Luk 16:21  And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 
 
This is how the Jews regarded the gentiles, as dogs and so with the Samaritan woman Jesus only referred to her that way because that is how the Jews saw the gentiles. And that phrase of eating the crumbs which fall from the table apply to both the gentile woman and the poor man Lazarus. In this parable, Lazarus represents the gentiles who were poor because they did not have the gospel that the rich man had but yet had a strong desire for it, while the rich man had the wrong attitude.
 
Then when they die, who is in Abraham's Bosom. The Bosom is a indicator of closeness, of family. In other words, the true seed of Abraham is this case, is Lazarus because as the bible says, if any man be in Christ he is Abraham's seed. Lazarus exhibited the right character and had a genuine heart as opposed to the Jews who were rich in knowledge but lacked any sincerity. 
 
Gal_3:29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 
 
Now here what the rich man says:
 
Luk 16:27  Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 
Luk 16:28  For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 
Luk 16:29  Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 
 
The Jewish nation had Moses and the Prophets or the law and the prophets, yet they were missing the mark badly and as Paul says, the gospel had to go to a nation bearing the fruits since Israel had rejected God. Rich in the knowledge of the scripture but totally missed the point. That's what the parable is talking about. How the nation of Israel who took so much pride in their heritage as being the descendants of Abraham, could spiritually be so far away from Abraham and would lose salvation. 
 
 
 


#10
bopeep1909

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When Jesus was on the Cross their were two thieves,one on each side of Him.One was repentant and the other thief was not.Jesus said the the thief that was repentant "today you will be with me in Paradise".That indicates that after we die we immediately are in either heaven or hades.

 

My uncle once told me that the problem he has with God is that a rapist and a murderer who repents on death row can go to heaven. I told him that the forgiveness of God is different than man. :grin:

 

God's grace and mercy is amazing.



#11
Brother Paul

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Blessings everyone. Do you guys think this is proof that after we die we are to be with the Lord right away?

 

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
 

 

Sheol/Hades was only a place for God's righteous until Christ, now to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord.



#12
donfish06

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When Jesus was on the Cross their were two thieves,one on each side of Him.One was repentant and the other thief was not.Jesus said the the thief that was repentant "today you will be with me in Paradise".That indicates that after we die we immediately are in either heaven or hades.

 

I have read somewhere at one point that the translators misplaced the comma:

 

Luk_23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. 
 
They contend that the comma should be:
 
Luk_23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise. 
 
If this is the case, he is saying, "I tell you this today, you shall be with me in paradise." It changes it from him saying that he would be with him today, to "today I tell you"
 


#13
DRS81

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Blessings everyone. Do you guys think this is proof that after we die we are to be with the Lord right away?

 

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
 

 

Sheol/Hades was only a place for God's righteous until Christ, now to be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord.

 

 

This parable isn't speaking about Sheol/Hades or the afterlife though. shiloh357 and ProphecyKid are right in their posts. Blessings. :)



#14
enoob57

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I don't think this parable proves that.

There is quite a debate of it being parable!

#15
bopeep1909

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I don't think this parable proves that.

There is quite a debate of it being parable!

 

What is the debate about enoob?



#16
Guest_ninhao_*

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Is the lesson here that we cannot serve both God and money?

 

 

I think a lesson is that Earthly splendour and favour are not evidence that you are righteous.

 

Oh another lesson is your fate is decided when you die.

 

Another lesson is listen to the living while you can !



#17
DRS81

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Oh another lesson is your fate is decided when you die.

 

What do u mean.



#18
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Oh another lesson is your fate is decided when you die.

 

What do u mean.

 

 

Luk 16:26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
 



#19
DRS81

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Oh another lesson is your fate is decided when you die.

 

What do u mean.

 

 

Luk 16:26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
 

 

 

But according to shiloh357 and ProphecyKid, this whole parable is not talking about the afterlife or the fate thereof. Rather I think the whole parable is talking about the condition of the spirit of the pharisee not repenting. Parables have no timeline, they rather teach moral lessons and speak to the heart. Repent from mammom and turn to God is the lesson I believe. Do not harden your hearts so much so as to reject God. If this is truly a parable then the people in it are fiction, rather the truth lies within the lesson learned. (Luke 16:30 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.) If a nonbeliever reads this, their fate isn't decided yet. They can still repent.



#20
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But according to shiloh357 and ProphecyKid, this whole parable is not talking about the afterlife or the fate thereof. Rather I think the whole parable is talking about the condition of the spirit of the pharisee not repenting. Parables have no timeline, they rather teach moral lessons and speak to the heart. Repent from mammom and turn to God is the lesson I believe. Do not harden your hearts so much so as to reject God. If this is truly a parable then the people in it are fiction, rather the truth lies within the lesson learned. (Luke 16:30 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.) If a nonbeliever reads this, their fate isn't decided yet. They can still repent.

 

 

Ok   yes they may repent while they're alive.






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