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Betrayers of Jesus unto Cavalry

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#1
GlidingWings

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You know I was just thinking recently about Judas Iscariot. I often wonder why did it have to be one of the 12 disciples to do this? I always wish it was someone else outside of these12 apostle followers of Jesus Gospel. So I thought it might make a good discussion about the betrayal of Jesus until He died in Calvary.

 

 First let us talk about Judas Iscariot one of Jesus betrayers. Also let us talk about those who else plotted against Jesus making all this betrayal possible to happen leading into the Bible prophecy of Jesus being led to the Cross. The focus on these betrayers has nothing at all to do with not forgiving them. Rather it has to do with Historical and Biblical discussion we can examine and discuss. How these events happened and who were all involved in betraying Jesus. This may include Religious groups, High officials, Roman armies etc the full kit and caboodle take on this betrayal. As like a movie based on we the posters telling the story using Bible passages and including also perhaps any historical written other books to put in any more Historical emphasis in its timing place, people, religions and so forth..

 

So let us discuss thse,betrayers Judas and including everyone else involved in going against Jesus in his life to plot to put Jesus to Death. It is even ok to make early accounts of threats against Jesus when he walked with the disciples. Any discussion of those who wanted to stone Jesus etc. already had in mind to betray him.

So the topic discussion’ The Betrayal of Jesus. Include everyone and anyone who is responsible for betraying against Jesus at all small or great. For what may be share will also help forum readers to understand why Jesus ended up on the Cross. We witness to those who want to know. We know that Judas was not the only bad guy in this story. That's why I want to include discussion about all betrayers to make this more fully understood in these plans before Jesus had to die on the Cross.



#2
shiloh357

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The Bible mentions only one betrayer, Judas.   I am not sure where you are getting the idea of multiple betrayers.   There were relgious leaders who were Roman puppets that wanted Jesus dead, but theu were not "betrayers" per se.



#3
FresnoJoe

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The Bible mentions only one betrayer, Judas.   I am not sure where you are getting the idea of multiple betrayers.   There were religious leaders who were Roman puppets that wanted Jesus dead, but they were not "betrayers" per se.

 

:thumbsup:

 

And Gentles Who Know He Was Innocent

 

And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people, 

 

Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:

 

No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him. I will therefore chastise him, and release him. Luke 23:13-16

 

Yet Had Him Ripped Almost Apart And Crucified



#4
GlidingWings

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Well shiloh I guess you believe that Judas was the only one that betrayed Jesus and if that were the case that Judas is the only one at fault then I guess it was all Judas Iscariot's fault why Jesus died on the cross.

 

Did Jesus say the words when he died on the cross Saying Father forgive Judas. For Judas doesn't know what he is doing. But Jesus says Father Father forgive them for they don't know what they do.

So if Jesus says "They" then Judas couldn't be the only one responsible putting Jesus on the cross.
There are others who planned this betrayal. Do you also know that betrayal means to be against another person? Do you know that when we don't accept God his compassion and his salvation that we have betrayed God? Because we owe God as both our Creator and Jesus who redeemed us with his blood.

 

What I am asking about the discussion here is when Jesus was on Earth who were those people that were betraying the ways against Jesus? But not only them but even those who physically betrays Jesus by figuring out ways how to get Jesus arrested so that he could be put on trial as a criminal.

 

Would others here like to discuss these biblical facts how all these things during Jesus life including his 3 1/2 yr ministry and even to the last hour he lived? Betrayal is  all those in the Bible  who were opposed to God and to Jesus his Son who came so they may not know death but they shall have life in him.

 

Who would like to be first where there betrayal of Jesus begins?



#5
celebratejesus

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When I think of the word betray, I think of a friend turning on you.  Or a family member, so that's why I would have to agree that Judas was the one betrayer or "friend" that betrayed Jesus.  Peter denied knowing Jesus, we know about that as well, but that I think is different than betrayal.

 

Because Judas betrayed Jesus, I don't think it was his fault Jesus went to the cross, that was foretold, and was why Jesus came to us (God with us, Emmanuel).  I am just saying what I think, that doesn't mean I am sure I am right, just my thoughts on it.

 

Denise, a sister in Christ

 

PS I also don't think anyone "led" Jesus to the cross, He went willingly.  Everyone knows Jesus could have escaped easily, He was and is God.



#6
Waiting2BwithHim

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From what I have read so far in this thread it seems IMO that the topic isn't what members are answering.

So without it causing me any misinformation or any more confusion may I ask the following questions of you GW?

 

1. When you brought up that "we" betrayed Jesus are you meaning because of the reason itself why he volunteered to go to the cross?

 

2. Are you asking members about what I call the background or the leading up to the betrayal of why he went to the cross?

 

3. Are you asking members to discuss even about events or scriptures that happened even after the initial betrayal?



#7
nebula

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You know I was just thinking recently about Judas Iscariot. I often wonder why did it have to be one of the 12 disciples to do this? I always wish it was someone else outside of these12 apostle followers of Jesus Gospel. So I thought it might make a good discussion about the betrayal of Jesus until He died in Calvary.

 

 First let us talk about Judas Iscariot one of Jesus betrayers. Also let us talk about those who else plotted against Jesus making all this betrayal possible to happen leading into the Bible prophecy of Jesus being led to the Cross. The focus on these betrayers has nothing at all to do with not forgiving them. Rather it has to do with Historical and Biblical discussion we can examine and discuss. How these events happened and who were all involved in betraying Jesus. This may include Religious groups, High officials, Roman armies etc the full kit and caboodle take on this betrayal. As like a movie based on we the posters telling the story using Bible passages and including also perhaps any historical written other books to put in any more Historical emphasis in its timing place, people, religions and so forth..

 

So let us discuss thse,betrayers Judas and including everyone else involved in going against Jesus in his life to plot to put Jesus to Death. It is even ok to make early accounts of threats against Jesus when he walked with the disciples. Any discussion of those who wanted to stone Jesus etc. already had in mind to betray him.

So the topic discussion’ The Betrayal of Jesus. Include everyone and anyone who is responsible for betraying against Jesus at all small or great. For what may be share will also help forum readers to understand why Jesus ended up on the Cross. We witness to those who want to know. We know that Judas was not the only bad guy in this story. That's why I want to include discussion about all betrayers to make this more fully understood in these plans before Jesus had to die on the Cross.

 

As far as we know, Judas was the only one who actually betrayed Jesus. The others involved were already known to be against Him, so they couldn't actually betray Him.

 

But we do know that the High Priest and many members of the Sanhedrin were responsible for the actual plotting of Jesus' death.



#8
His_disciple3

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I don't think it would ever be a good ideal to play "what if" with scriptures. too many splitting over scripture now to be adding something that ain't there.

#9
Waiting2BwithHim

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I don't think it would ever be a good ideal to play "what if" with scriptures. too many splitting over scripture now to be adding something that ain't there.

 

Not being disrespectful but who are you saying "what if" to?

If I am correct I believe this topic is not dealing with any kind of what if but with actual facts that members could talk about.

 

In the OP GW says  he would like to start with discussing Judas Iscariot..

 

You know I was just thinking recently about Judas Iscariot. I often wonder why did it have to be one of the 12 disciples to do this? I always wish it was someone else outside of these12 apostle followers of Jesus Gospel. So I thought it might make a good discussion about the betrayal of Jesus until He died in Calvary.

 

 First let us talk about Judas Iscariot one of Jesus betrayers. Also let us talk about those who else plotted against Jesus making all this betrayal possible to happen leading into the Bible prophecy of Jesus being led to the Cross. The focus on these betrayers has nothing at all to do with not forgiving them. Rather it has to do with Historical and Biblical discussion we can examine and discuss. How these events happened and who were all involved in betraying Jesus. This may include Religious groups, High officials, Roman armies etc the full kit and caboodle take on this betrayal. As like a movie based on we the posters telling the story using Bible passages and including also perhaps any historical written other books to put in any more Historical emphasis in its timing place, people, religions and so forth..

 

So let us discuss thse,betrayers Judas and including everyone else involved in going against Jesus in his life to plot to put Jesus to Death. It is even ok to make early accounts of threats against Jesus when he walked with the disciples. Any discussion of those who wanted to stone Jesus etc. already had in mind to betray him.

So the topic discussion’ The Betrayal of Jesus. Include everyone and anyone who is responsible for betraying against Jesus at all small or great. For what may be share will also help forum readers to understand why Jesus ended up on the Cross. We witness to those who want to know. We know that Judas was not the only bad guy in this story. That's why I want to include discussion about all betrayers to make this more fully understood in these plans before Jesus had to die on the Cross.

 

So that is why I ask whom you are referring your comment to.



#10
GlidingWings

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 Thanks Waiting for asking these questions. My inspiration to start this post was the similar idea Mel Gibson’ Passion Of The Christ”. . already that movie is ten plus years old. While it has a good message we need to carry this on. Should we rely on one movie director to give the revelation of Jesus life? Those that betrayed Jesus.

 

There are those who read here at the forum who do not post. They want to learn God's word. Whatever we can share may also help them to learn in their faith. For even I learned a lot from others more than just my own Bible studies. Mel Gibson was not a main actor in that movie. But Mel Gibson was the man who hammered the nail in Jesus right hand. You only see his hand in the movie. So they asked him why did you do this? Why did you want that part? He explains I did this because I am responsible for Jesus dying on the Cross. I put him there. For my Sins Jesus died for them. I hold accountability so that’s why I put the nail in his hand..

 

I think he is right. But the Ten Commandments Charleston Heston and The Passion of The Christ should not be the final messages and word. As the early Patriarchs such as Noah to Abraham share this by mouth to his children and they to their children. So not till Moses came along was documented in the Pentateuch first Five Books of the Bible. . Just think Ten Generations to Noah and the Old Testimony not even written as of yet..

 

Here now we have the forum where we can discuss these things. One might say why don’t you just read this and keep it to yourself? Then what is a Discussion forum for? We that read also discuss what we read. If we read and don’t discuss then there is really no reason for a forum discussion. One may have thought of something that another may not have. So I'm in hopes that someone may say something that maybe I never thought of.

 

I’m trying to create a discussion to those who opposed Jesus. That including to the very day He was betrayed even what happened after wards.

 

In a court case the attorney says now this suspect on a number of occasions attacked my client. He the attorney then presents these dates which led up to the final conflict. So in Jesus life it was the same thing. Jesus endured several conflicts with religious leaders who hated him. For this plotting to stone him. But every time the they tried to trap him Jesus always had the right answers. .

 

These are some of the confrontations we can discuss prior to the main betrayal. We can discuss how those confrontations got them to corner Jesus. And now what finally gave them a plan to get Jesus arrested. How did this all happen and how was this planned? How did they get Judas to be a part of this plan? 

 

Now here is another thing to discuss. There was the Palm Sunday and people were saying Hosanna The Great King. The crowds were cheering. But wait hold on. What happened to these followers and cheering crowds? Suddenly we now have crowds wanting to crucify Jesus. Either He was betrayed by some or Jesus was being confronted by other crowds who opposed him. So now it can be discussed what were all the events that led to the betrayal? When did this last supper happen? Why did they finally want to get Jesus to receive the Roman Empire Death penalty? Why were so many crowds persisting that Jesus would die this way?.

 

As I said let's not let Mel Gibson be the final person to share many of these things. I believe here at Worthy we can bring in more scriptures and Biblical aspect. After all Passion of the Christ was inspired by the Catholic Church. See Mary in this movie dressed in Nun colors. . If Catholics can bring forward a good message then we Christians also should have ability to discuss recorded History on the events that led up to the events that took place after wards. We are not there to win an Oscar award for our writings. But as witnesses of a reward greater than trophies that reward is the Crown of Life.

 

So we carry on the discipleship sharing the testimonies of God's word. And maybe you have not realized someone reading here you just may have even saved one person. It is better to save one person than to not save anyone at all.

Here is a verse of our betrayal.

 

Isaiah 53:3-6

3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

 

Yes we have all gone astray. We were in the sheep fold and we have all have turned from God. For there is no one good no not even one.

 

  1. Mark 10:18
    So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
    Mark 10:17-19 (in Context) Mark 10 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

 

Who will be the first to want to discuss about the leading up to the betrayal? Then we can work on this working on the order of events.


Edited by GlidingWings, 15 January 2014 - 03:00 AM.


#11
Fez

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So we carry on the discipleship sharing the testimonies of God's word. And maybe you have not realized someone reading here you just may have even saved one person. It is better to save one person than to not save anyone at all.

 

Interesting thread.

 

Just a little correction. We don't save anyone, Jesus does that.

 

Paul said believing first comes from hearing. Our job is to speak.

 

God bless.



#12
GlidingWings

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Sorry Fez

 

I worded that sentence a little wrong. I didn't mean to say that we will save people.

I guess I meant we can lead others to God.

 

That's just the trouble sometimes we're so focused on the topic we don't know how to edit our own posts. Oh well as they say back to the drawing board.. :mgcheerful:



#13
Fez

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Sorry Fez

 

I worded that sentence a little wrong. I didn't mean to say that we will save people.

I guess I meant we can lead others to God.

 

That's just the trouble sometimes we're so focused on the topic we don't know how to edit our own posts. Oh well as they say back to the drawing board.. :mgcheerful:

I know what you meant to say brother. We all do it, me included, and I did not want someone who may actually believe we do save, have their misconception validated is all.

 

I sometimes post something only to have to hurriedly use the edit button when I read it in the context of others...



#14
Qnts2

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Ok, picture yourself walking down the street, and you hear a man claim to be equal to God. He is boasting that he is greater then the greatest person in countries history and equal to God. He even goes so far as to say he is God.

 

Your countries laws are based on the Mosaic law. So the law of the land says the following:

 

Lev 24:16 Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

 

This rather ordinary looking man is telling others that he is greater then any other human, he is equal to God, and is in fact God. If you consider those statements blasphemy, then according to the law, you are to sentence him to death, and in fact join in on his execution.

 

So, if the person committed blasphemy, to have him executed, and even to join in is in obedience to what God commanded. So, Judas was the only person to betray Jesus, simply because he traveled with him as a disciple and a friend, and a believer, even though he secretly did not believe who Jesus said He was.      



#15
nebula

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 So, Judas was the only person to betray Jesus, simply because he traveled with him as a disciple and a friend, and a believer, even though he secretly did not believe who Jesus said He was.      

 

It can be argued that Judas did not intend to betray Jesus. Rather, having the mindset (like everyone else) that the Messiah was going to restore the Kingdom of David, and having seen Jesus overcome every time people tried to seize Him, he was thinking of hurrying God's hand. That is, he was sure that when the guards came for Jesus, Jesus would again overcome and actually begin to rise up against the Romans.

 

That would explain why he was so horribly grief-stricken when things went differently.



#16
Qnts2

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 So, Judas was the only person to betray Jesus, simply because he traveled with him as a disciple and a friend, and a believer, even though he secretly did not believe who Jesus said He was.      

 

It can be argued that Judas did not intend to betray Jesus. Rather, having the mindset (like everyone else) that the Messiah was going to restore the Kingdom of David, and having seen Jesus overcome every time people tried to seize Him, he was thinking of hurrying God's hand. That is, he was sure that when the guards came for Jesus, Jesus would again overcome and actually begin to rise up against the Romans.

 

That would explain why he was so horribly grief-stricken when things went differently.

 

 

It is a good argument, except for the following....

 

Matt 10:4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

 

Matt 26:15 and said, “What are you willing to give me to betray Him to you?” And they weighed out thirty pieces of silver to him. 16

From then on he began looking for a good opportunity to betray Jesus.
 
Matt 26:23 And He answered, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.” 25 And Judas, who was betraying Him, said, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” Jesus *said to him, “You have said it yourself.”

 

So, the intent you ascribe to Judas sounds plausable, but unless the original Greek word has other nuances, I think scripture does say that Judas betrayed Jesus. From your story, Judas did betray Jesus but did not intend the betrayal to result in Jesus death but rather the betrayal would result in the defeat of Rome. 



#17
GlidingWings

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Hi Qnts and nebula

 

It sounds like to me are you saying that Jesus was thought by many that he was going to become some powerful ruler. I mean did some people believe he was going to form some great army and be able to defeat Rome?

I'm asking because if there were some who believed this wouldn't Roman officials want him dead

if they had any word that Jesus had any attempt to overthrow the Roman army?



#18
Qnts2

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Hi Qnts and nebula

 

It sounds like to me are you saying that Jesus was thought by many that he was going to become some powerful ruler. I mean did some people believe he was going to form some great army and be able to defeat Rome?

I'm asking because if there were some who believed this wouldn't Roman officials want him dead

if they had any word that Jesus had any attempt to overthrow the Roman army?

 

Micah 5:2 (In Jewish bibles this verse is Micah 5:1) And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from of old, from days of yore.

 

So, the Jewish view of the Messiah, is that the Messiah will be a son of David, and will rule as King over Israel, sitting on David's throne.

 

Zechariah 12:8 On that day the Lord shall protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the weakest of them shall be, on that day, like David. And the house of David shall be like angels, like the angel of the Lord before them. 9 And it shall come to pass on that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come upon Jerusalem.

 

So, yes, the Messiah was thought to form some great army and defeat Rome, then be King over Israel.  The Jewish people under Roman rule were oppressed and looking forward to the time of the Messiah, when He would defeat Rome.



#19
celebratejesus

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Hi Qnts and nebula

 

It sounds like to me are you saying that Jesus was thought by many that he was going to become some powerful ruler. I mean did some people believe he was going to form some great army and be able to defeat Rome?

I'm asking because if there were some who believed this wouldn't Roman officials want him dead

if they had any word that Jesus had any attempt to overthrow the Roman army?

 

Micah 5:2 (In Jewish bibles this verse is Micah 5:1) And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from of old, from days of yore.

 

So, the Jewish view of the Messiah, is that the Messiah will be a son of David, and will rule as King over Israel, sitting on David's throne.

 

Zechariah 12:8 On that day the Lord shall protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the weakest of them shall be, on that day, like David. And the house of David shall be like angels, like the angel of the Lord before them. 9 And it shall come to pass on that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come upon Jerusalem.

 

So, yes, the Messiah was thought to form some great army and defeat Rome, then be King over Israel.  The Jewish people under Roman rule were oppressed and looking forward to the time of the Messiah, when He would defeat Rome.

 

Yes, this is it, people thought Jesus (the Messiah) was going to save them in a different way, maybe I could use "a worldly" way, not a spiritual way.  In fact I see Jesus as the opposite of what so many expected.  In Jesus short ministry on Earth, so many followed Him that He became more and more of a threat to the "worldly" rulers of that day.  I think I have that right, maybe close at best:)  I love how God works, never what the "natural man" expects is He;) 



#20
nebula

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 So, Judas was the only person to betray Jesus, simply because he traveled with him as a disciple and a friend, and a believer, even though he secretly did not believe who Jesus said He was.      

 

It can be argued that Judas did not intend to betray Jesus. Rather, having the mindset (like everyone else) that the Messiah was going to restore the Kingdom of David, and having seen Jesus overcome every time people tried to seize Him, he was thinking of hurrying God's hand. That is, he was sure that when the guards came for Jesus, Jesus would again overcome and actually begin to rise up against the Romans.

 

That would explain why he was so horribly grief-stricken when things went differently.

 

 

It is a good argument, except for the following....

 

Matt 10:4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

 

Matt 26:15 and said, “What are you willing to give me to betray Him to you?” And they weighed out thirty pieces of silver to him. 16

From then on he began looking for a good opportunity to betray Jesus.
 
Matt 26:23 And He answered, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.” 25 And Judas, who was betraying Him, said, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” Jesus *said to him, “You have said it yourself.”

 

So, the intent you ascribe to Judas sounds plausable, but unless the original Greek word has other nuances, I think scripture does say that Judas betrayed Jesus. From your story, Judas did betray Jesus but did not intend the betrayal to result in Jesus death but rather the betrayal would result in the defeat of Rome. 

 

I did not say that Judas did not betray Jesus.

 

Simply that he believed the betrayal would lead to victory, not to defeat.






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