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#1
JustinM

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Btw you need to get out and meet people and stop watching the news so much. There are huge numbers of good people in this nation..... you just won't hear of them in the media... we've met hundreds upon hundreds of them on our travels across the Nation from sea to see and Mexico to and including Canada. The only place we ddidn't find a lot of good folks was in Washington DC. I would agree that that place is basically evil.... but it has been from the very start.

 

Go out and meet people......and you will learn they usually fall into one or two major groups;

 

- those who are fully aware of the insinuation of a corrupt bureaucracy into the core of their lives...

- and those who are unaware of anything in the world outside their reflection in the bathroom mirror.  

 

The rest of the population are being carried along by the winds of fortune and are either not aware of it or helpless to even define what is happening to them.

 

"The American people have no idea what is happening to them."

- Pravda

 

The first group are those who use their heads and hearts for something other than self-absorbed philosophy.  They know what is, in fact, going on, who is causing the dilemma and what the ends of the situation lead to.    It's not a good end, by the way.

 

* Teachers and parents of K - 12 are deep into heart rending dialogue about governmental influence in the systematic training of their kids.  It's not a happy situation.

 

* Local citizens are alarmed at the rise in police brutality - or the lack of police protection at all depending on where you live.  Americans are arming themselves at a prodigious rate, and for good reason.  There's no longer any faith in justice or in the ability of police to do their duty for the community.(1)

 

* Farmers and those who work in factories (there are still a few left in America) are constantly having to deal with new, more restrictive, Federal regulations.

 

* Persons in the health care industry are being deluged by a landslide of new, and may I say idiotic, rules for remittances (the life blood of any office or hospital)(2)

 

I could go on and on - waste management companies (garbage & sewer) who are struggling with ways to be compliant with regulations that only make things more difficult and expensive, the fishing industry (I personally know professional scrimp fisherman who are having trouble - not with netting the tasty little critters but with the jack boot of Uncle Sam on their necks)

 

The issue here isn't about 'good people' in America.  It's about the petty tyrants and dictators our present system encourages.  Everyone with a brain is suffering under it's heel and knows it.  

 

It's about an entire population yielding to the immorality of abortion, the outlawing of prayer and public celebration of God, of the adoption of the sodomite agenda and the continuation of American military aggression (and intelligence gathering) throughout the globe.  

 

And it's going to get worse because America has rejected God.   That's the base reason for our troubles......but no one wants to admit it or do anything about it.

 

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

(1)

The Law Enforcement Officer is under no obligation to protect a citizen. 
In Warren v. District of Columbia (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981), 
the federal court stated that a LEO has no duty to protect a citizen. 
 
In most cases of crime today, police officers show up to document what has already happened, not to prevent or stop crime. 
 
(2)
I'm not referring to Obamacare here.(3)  
There are a whole new series of regulations coming down the pipe, which threaten to overwhelm doctor's offices, clinics and hospitals with their petty requirements.  It's all in the name of Medicare remittance.  Don't believe me?  Talk to your doctor.  You'll get an earful I guarantee it.
 
(3) The Affordable Health Care Act - is neither affordable nor adequate for those of low income.  Talk to those who need it.  I mean real people, not media pundits.

 

In the past three years we have traveled by car and boat from New York to California and Mexico to Canada and every state inbetween....   and even Hawaii and Alaska......    and from the thousands of people we've met I would disagree with your views of the general public of the US conpared to Sodom and Gomorrah. 

 

We had to move the Bible studies meeting some days on our last cruise because the room wasn't big enough for all the people.

 

 

The general public will suffer the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah whether they be Christian or no.   Take a look at history.  A looooong look.   There were Christians in every fallen evil empire from the Confederate States in America to the NAZIfied empire of Europe in the 1930s and 1940s.  

 

No one can pursue an honest and forthright study of scripture and deny that God defines and judges wickedness.  The problem with many Americans is that they think they are somehow excused from judgment, that wickedness is somehow waived by God - THAT AMERICA HAS A LICENSE TO SIN.

 

We do not, sir.  We never will.  All nations, including America are held accountable for their deeds be they good or evil.    And America today is evil - more and more so each day.

 

Enjoy your Bible studies, by the way.   How long will it be before they are declared illegal by our own government?   Go to the Barnabus Fund web site and look at the news section.   The persecution of Christians is growing at an alarming rate.    All that must be done for evil to grow is for good men to do nothing.  You can continue to stick your head in the sand.   The darkness there will not hide the truth much longer.  The truth is .....

 

the good men of America have done nothing.  Therefore......

 

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

 

 

Where in our society are men being encouraged to be good?  Good fathers?  Good husbands?  Good neighbors? Good role models?  Good leaders?  You won't any find encouragement anywhere. 

 

The same questions can be asked of our women as well. 

 

What are we being taught?  Who is teaching us?


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#2
Butero

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The Bible did say there would come a day when men would call evil good and good evil.  There is no question we are living in that day.  We have the knowledge of good and evil.  People just can't discern which is which.  The Bible tells us right from wrong, but there are many who attack scripture and call the teachings found in God's Word intolerant, sexist, homophobic, and many other names intended to make it look like something to be shunned.  People are being deceived by Satan to take the wrong side. 


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#3
other one

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Btw you need to get out and meet people and stop watching the news so much. There are huge numbers of good people in this nation..... you just won't hear of them in the media... we've met hundreds upon hundreds of them on our travels across the Nation from sea to see and Mexico to and including Canada. The only place we ddidn't find a lot of good folks was in Washington DC. I would agree that that place is basically evil.... but it has been from the very start.

 

Go out and meet people......and you will learn they usually fall into one or two major groups;

 

- those who are fully aware of the insinuation of a corrupt bureaucracy into the core of their lives...

- and those who are unaware of anything in the world outside their reflection in the bathroom mirror.  

 

The rest of the population are being carried along by the winds of fortune and are either not aware of it or helpless to even define what is happening to them.

 

"The American people have no idea what is happening to them."

- Pravda

 

The first group are those who use their heads and hearts for something other than self-absorbed philosophy.  They know what is, in fact, going on, who is causing the dilemma and what the ends of the situation lead to.    It's not a good end, by the way.

 

* Teachers and parents of K - 12 are deep into heart rending dialogue about governmental influence in the systematic training of their kids.  It's not a happy situation.

 

* Local citizens are alarmed at the rise in police brutality - or the lack of police protection at all depending on where you live.  Americans are arming themselves at a prodigious rate, and for good reason.  There's no longer any faith in justice or in the ability of police to do their duty for the community.(1)

 

* Farmers and those who work in factories (there are still a few left in America) are constantly having to deal with new, more restrictive, Federal regulations.

 

* Persons in the health care industry are being deluged by a landslide of new, and may I say idiotic, rules for remittances (the life blood of any office or hospital)(2)

 

I could go on and on - waste management companies (garbage & sewer) who are struggling with ways to be compliant with regulations that only make things more difficult and expensive, the fishing industry (I personally know professional scrimp fisherman who are having trouble - not with netting the tasty little critters but with the jack boot of Uncle Sam on their necks)

 

The issue here isn't about 'good people' in America.  It's about the petty tyrants and dictators our present system encourages.  Everyone with a brain is suffering under it's heel and knows it.  

 

It's about an entire population yielding to the immorality of abortion, the outlawing of prayer and public celebration of God, of the adoption of the sodomite agenda and the continuation of American military aggression (and intelligence gathering) throughout the globe.  

 

And it's going to get worse because America has rejected God.   That's the base reason for our troubles......but no one wants to admit it or do anything about it.

 

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

(1)

The Law Enforcement Officer is under no obligation to protect a citizen. 
In Warren v. District of Columbia (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981), 
the federal court stated that a LEO has no duty to protect a citizen. 
 
In most cases of crime today, police officers show up to document what has already happened, not to prevent or stop crime. 
 
(2)
I'm not referring to Obamacare here.(3)  
There are a whole new series of regulations coming down the pipe, which threaten to overwhelm doctor's offices, clinics and hospitals with their petty requirements.  It's all in the name of Medicare remittance.  Don't believe me?  Talk to your doctor.  You'll get an earful I guarantee it.
 
(3) The Affordable Health Care Act - is neither affordable nor adequate for those of low income.  Talk to those who need it.  I mean real people, not media pundits.

 

In the past three years we have traveled by car and boat from New York to California and Mexico to Canada and every state inbetween....   and even Hawaii and Alaska......    and from the thousands of people we've met I would disagree with your views of the general public of the US conpared to Sodom and Gomorrah. 

 

We had to move the Bible studies meeting some days on our last cruise because the room wasn't big enough for all the people.

 

 

The general public will suffer the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah whether they be Christian or no.   Take a look at history.  A looooong look.   There were Christians in every fallen evil empire from the Confederate States in America to the NAZIfied empire of Europe in the 1930s and 1940s.  

 

No one can pursue an honest and forthright study of scripture and deny that God defines and judges wickedness.  The problem with many Americans is that they think they are somehow excused from judgment, that wickedness is somehow waived by God - THAT AMERICA HAS A LICENSE TO SIN.

 

We do not, sir.  We never will.  All nations, including America are held accountable for their deeds be they good or evil.    And America today is evil - more and more so each day.

 

Enjoy your Bible studies, by the way.   How long will it be before they are declared illegal by our own government?   Go to the Barnabus Fund web site and look at the news section.   The persecution of Christians is growing at an alarming rate.    All that must be done for evil to grow is for good men to do nothing.  You can continue to stick your head in the sand.   The darkness there will not hide the truth much longer.  The truth is .....

 

the good men of America have done nothing.  Therefore......

 

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

 

 

Where in our society are men being encouraged to be good?  Good fathers?  Good husbands?  Good neighbors? Good role models?  Good leaders?  You won't any find encouragement anywhere. 

 

The same questions can be asked of our women as well. 

 

What are we being taught?  Who is teaching us?

 

 

Well, I know it's being taught in Kindergarten in Shawnee Oklahoma.....   at least I know it was a year ago.  If it's not being taught in your schools.....   shame on you..


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#4
Cobalt1959

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I would say that the effects are surely manifest of original sin, as listed in Romans 1. It appears to me that the USA populace is not just biting, but chowing-down on forbidden fruit, thinking how much they know. Has anyone ever wondered why the USA (as such) is nowhere mentioned in prophecy? Could it be that by the time of the Rapture and Daniel's 70th week, the USA is nothing significant?

 

They are not mentioned because America is not all that important and God's plan does not revolve around the U.S.  Yet we are such a selfish nation, even as "christians," that we think it does.  Prophecy is Christ & Israel centric.  It revolves around those tow things and only those to things.  Any nations and/or people outside of those two things are peripheral to that.


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#5
Cobalt1959

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Kenneth Copeland teaching are antichrist...

 

Really?  What does he teach?  I always turn him off because he gives me the creeps.  :confused:

 

 

Copeland is a Word of Faith teacher and his doctrine is severely messed up.  I wonder why he was introduced into the thread though.


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#6
Cobalt1959

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You are assuming that God has been doing judgement here In modern times as he did in Sodom and I would disagree.

 

Will God judge America?


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#7
other one

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You are assuming that God has been doing judgement here In modern times as he did in Sodom and I would disagree.

 

Will God judge America?

 

From the people that I have met across the country, I would say that no he will not judge America the way he judged Sodom for I have met hundreds of people who are as good as Lot seemed to be in thier lives.   There are a lot of really good people in this country....  unfortunately not a lot of them are in Washington DC at the capitol complex.

 

Will he judge our government..... that I don't know   I have already done that, but fortunately I  don't have the power to condemn it....  


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#8
Cobalt1959

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You are assuming that God has been doing judgement here In modern times as he did in Sodom and I would disagree.

 

Will God judge America?

 

From the people that I have met across the country, I would say that no he will not judge America the way he judged Sodom for I have met hundreds of people who are as good as Lot seemed to be in thier lives.   There are a lot of really good people in this country....  unfortunately not a lot of them are in Washington DC at the capitol complex.

 

Will he judge our government..... that I don't know   I have already done that, but fortunately I  don't have the power to condemn it....  

 

 

We've killed 10 million + unborn children through abortion.

 

We are the world's leading exporter of pornography of all kinds, including child pornography.

 

We the world's biggest importer of illicit drugs.

 

We are actively endorsing and encouraging homosexuality.

 

Sodom and Gomorrah can't begin to match our hedonism, lack of spiritual discernment, our greed, our apathy, or our failure to acknowledge God in anything. 

 

If you believe that God will not judge this nation, you do not understand the characteristics of God.


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#9
other one

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You are assuming that God has been doing judgement here In modern times as he did in Sodom and I would disagree.

 

Will God judge America?

 

From the people that I have met across the country, I would say that no he will not judge America the way he judged Sodom for I have met hundreds of people who are as good as Lot seemed to be in thier lives.   There are a lot of really good people in this country....  unfortunately not a lot of them are in Washington DC at the capitol complex.

 

Will he judge our government..... that I don't know   I have already done that, but fortunately I  don't have the power to condemn it....  

 

 

We've killed 10 million + unborn children through abortion.

 

We are the world's leading exporter of pornography of all kinds, including child pornography.

 

We the world's biggest importer of illicit drugs.

 

We are actively endorsing and encouraging homosexuality.

 

Sodom and Gomorrah can't begin to match our hedonism, lack of spiritual discernment, our greed, our apathy, or our failure to acknowledge God in anything. 

 

If you believe that God will not judge this nation, you do not understand the characteristics of God.

 

I have met thousands of people over the last 20 years( both on vacation and in the hundreds of offices I worked in) that agree that none of these things you mention are good......   Our government and the news media are the people pushing these things outside of the Gays themselves and people like Planned Parenthood.  but that has been in the making for generations.....    what do the polls say about homosexuality and abortion.   How many are against it.......    not exactly the same as Sodom....              I do not think that this nation is anything like Sodom and Gomorrah.....  certain segments yes, but not even a majority much less all.  With our form of government, they must be represented along with the rest of us.    You know that I understand that homosexuality is wrong and all that participate in it will go to hell......  not treating them the same as others is not what our constitution is about.   We can't treat them any different than we would an adulterer  or such.

 

As for abortion, from my perspective it's state approved murder.....     but the mother that approves it will answer to God on every case.....   our state has decided legally through the supreme court that they will not be prosecuted for it.   I do not think that God will hold me guilty because someone else killed their child for the government that he allowed to exist says it's ok.

 

Will he allow our government to exist.......   I don't know.....   would I like to change it.......      I try every day, and a lot of  people I know are also.

 

Do I think God will judge America as a whole as he did Sodom and Gomorrah.......    I don't think so, and it would be a great injustice if he did.    We have a hundred or so people in our church that would stand up to Lots character, and a few even to Abraham's...  I would be terribly disappointed if God did such a thing with all the good people around.


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#10
Cobalt1959

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I have met thousands of people over the last 20 years( both on vacation and in the hundreds of offices I worked in) that agree that none of these things you mention are good......   Our government and the news media are the people pushing these things outside of the Gays themselves and people like Planned Parenthood.  but that has been in the making for generations.....    what do the polls say about homosexuality and abortion.   How many are against it.......    not exactly the same as Sodom....              I do not think that this nation is anything like Sodom and Gomorrah.....  certain segments yes, but not even a majority much less all.  With our form of government, they must be represented along with the rest of us.    You know that I understand that homosexuality is wrong and all that participate in it will go to hell......  not treating them the same as others is not what our constitution is about.   We can't treat them any different than we would an adulterer  or such.

 

 

 

As for abortion, from my perspective it's state approved murder.....     but the mother that approves it will answer to God on every case.....   our state has decided legally through the supreme court that they will not be prosecuted for it.   I do not think that God will hold me guilty because someone else killed their child for the government that he allowed to exist says it's ok.

 

Will he allow our government to exist.......   I don't know.....   would I like to change it.......      I try every day, and a lot of  people I know are also.

 

Do I think God will judge America as a whole as he did Sodom and Gomorrah.......    I don't think so, and it would be a great injustice if he did.    We have a hundred or so people in our church that would stand up to Lots character, and a few even to Abraham's...  I would be terribly disappointed if God did such a thing with all the good people around.

 

 

None of those are good, or valid arguments  to use if one wishes to mitigate God's judgment against this, or any country.

 

You met some "good" folks.  That's great.  It does not follow that since you met some good people, on a vacation jaunt, or even office work, that the majority of people in the country are "good."  And a secular concept of "good" and a spiritual definition of "good" are worlds apart, so the word "good" itself is relative to whatever context one is using it in.  You are not going to go deep into places like The Deuce in Phoenix or Caprini Green in Chicago or Bedford Sty and still think that the majority of people there are "good."

 

Sodom and Gomorrah are not the only examples in the Bible that we can examine in regards to judgment for evil behavior.  We have plenty of examples.  Bad behavior is not relative to the number of people performing it.  Once it tips past a certain point God is not going to turn a blind eye to it.  The judgment itself does not have to take the form of fire and brimstone or complete destruction.  It could be reducing the country to an unpleasant, scrabbling and backward 3rd world mess, and we are standing on the edge of that cliff, right now.  Every nation turns it's back on Israel in the end and that means every single nation is judged. 


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#11
other one

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If you think he's judging the country that's fine. I just personally know more people than Abraham talked him down to that are better people than Lot. So I don't see him treating us like Sodom..... and that is why I posted what I did.
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#12
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You are assuming that God has been doing judgement here In modern times as he did in Sodom and I would disagree.

 

Will God judge America?

 

From the people that I have met across the country, I would say that no he will not judge America the way he judged Sodom for I have met hundreds of people who are as good as Lot seemed to be in thier lives.   There are a lot of really good people in this country....  unfortunately not a lot of them are in Washington DC at the capitol complex.

 

Will he judge our government..... that I don't know   I have already done that, but fortunately I  don't have the power to condemn it....  

 

 

We've killed 10 million + unborn children through abortion.

 

We are the world's leading exporter of pornography of all kinds, including child pornography.

 

We the world's biggest importer of illicit drugs.

 

We are actively endorsing and encouraging homosexuality.

 

Sodom and Gomorrah can't begin to match our hedonism, lack of spiritual discernment, our greed, our apathy, or our failure to acknowledge God in anything. 

 

If you believe that God will not judge this nation, you do not understand the characteristics of God.

 

 

Sodom and Gomorrah were extreme examples. With the countdown starting at fifty, Abraham pleaded with God to spare Sodom, finally finishing at ten.

 

Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

Genesis 18:32

 

Now, I'm pretty sure that population of the city of Sodom was not anywhere near the population of the whole of the U.S. but even so, ten people must have still been a fraction of a percent.

If God was prepared to save a city just because of ten good people then why would he punish the U.S. when there are millions of good people?

God does not usually punish communities until iniquity reaches a certain point, however he does appear to take away favours. I would say that America is losing favours in God's sight, but I can't see why he would need to punish the nation.

Remember too, that in pre-crucifixion times, punishments were dealt out in sacrificial terms which is no longer necessary today as Jesus was the final sacrifice. Today we don't stone adulterers to death, we forgive them if they repent. Likewise with other crimes.

If Sodom had existed today, it would probably not have been destroyed in its entirety, it would have just been left to fall, either under its own weight of depravity or at the mercy of invading nations. God had to destroy Sodom because it was unclean and tarnished the land.There was no other hope other than sacrificing the city and everybody in it. Today Jesus Christ is our hope.


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#13
Cobalt1959

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Sodom and Gomorrah were extreme examples. With the countdown starting at fifty, Abraham pleaded with God to spare Sodom, finally finishing at ten.

 

Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

Genesis 18:32

 

Now, I'm pretty sure that population of the city of Sodom was not anywhere near the population of the whole of the U.S. but even so, ten people must have still been a fraction of a percent.

If God was prepared to save a city just because of ten good people then why would he punish the U.S. when there are millions of good people?

God does not usually punish communities until iniquity reaches a certain point, however he does appear to take away favours. I would say that America is losing favours in God's sight, but I can't see why he would need to punish the nation.

Remember too, that in pre-crucifixion times, punishments were dealt out in sacrificial terms which is no longer necessary today as Jesus was the final sacrifice. Today we don't stone adulterers to death, we forgive them if they repent. Likewise with other crimes.

If Sodom had existed today, it would probably not have been destroyed in its entirety, it would have just been left to fall, either under its own weight of depravity or at the mercy of invading nations. God had to destroy Sodom because it was unclean and tarnished the land.There was no other hope other than sacrificing the city and everybody in it. Today Jesus Christ is our hope.

 

 

The majority of people that you feel are "good" turn a blind eye against the lies, evil, murder and moral decay they see happening around them.  They refuse to speak out about it and they refuse to recognize it, thinking, falsely, that a position of denial, or secular acceptance removed from their Christian beliefs will absolve them of blame or responsibility.  To ignore the sin is to condone it.  If one does not point out the sin and condemn it, then one accepts and condones sin by default.

 

Only  those who are saved are ultimately spared a spiritual punishment for their sin.  Jesus Christ is not a rational hope when 75% of the country claims to be Christian and only 25% of those numbers are actually trying in some way to live an actual Christian life.  Do you believe those claiming Christianity but not walking with Jesus are fooling Him?   Are they spared because they invoke the name of Jesus without actually believing in Him or following after Him?  What does God do with an unbelieving world during the End Times of Revelation?


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