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    Who are Worthy Servants?

    By George

    Shalom everyone, Since I've been asked, I'll post up a quick reference guide to what the different functions of ministry are.  We instituted a checks and balances sort of system at Worthy, so that no one person or persons have complete authority. Worthy Steward -- That's me -- and why do I call myself a Steward.  It's merely because I'm a steward of the Lord's ministry.  It's not "my" ministry -- and not "my" work.  It's the Lord's work!    Worthy Servants -- Those are Forum Moderators, who check reported posts, send PM's to keep the peace so to speak, and try to keep this "experiment " running smoothly! Worthy Chat Moderators -- Those are Chat Moderators, who keep Worthy Chat clean, and help "steer" chat. Worthy Watchman -- These are a group of "oversight" individuals, whose role is not to "moderate" but a means of checks and balances to the different moderators.  When things come up -- they are responsible to review Reported Posts, Moderator actions / inactions, and even comment as to "why" things were handled the way they were. Platinum Members -- These are individuals, who help "watch" over the ministry, and have only one "extra" function.  To be able to minister behind the scenes in the chat room as they have Private Message ability. So in essence, the moderation team is a group of individuals who "volunteer" their time, and often get criticized no matter what they do!  Either they are moderating too heavily, not moderating too much, why is this "false" doctrine allowed to be discussed, etc. are some of the common complaints I've heard over the 15+ years we've run Worthy!  It really doesn't change over the years -- just the members.  Many people don't realize how much turnover there is on forum boards!  I'm not sure how many different moderating teams we've gone through -- but it's significant! Past Moderation Style We've always like to keep a clean board. and in the past we removed, hid, and deleted harmful posts.  However, when we do so, many people NEVER see how much moderating is being done behind the scenes!  How many posts are "cleaned up"?  The moderators have a few options at this point.  First, we'll send a Private Message, trying to "steer" people to what is and what is not acceptable.  If this doesn't work, then we will place individuals on "Moderator Review" for a certain period of time.  At this point, most of those individuals placed on Moderator Review never come back.  What most people do not realize is that "Moderator Review" is the last thing we really want to do as moderators -- because it increases our workload!  So what is changed? Changes in Moderation We are simply not "cleaning" up the board any longer.  If someone personally attacks someone, then we will simply leave the attack on the board -- EDIT the post -- leaving it intact, but commenting on the post that we as the moderating team do not feel this is appropriate, and the steps we've taken to fix the problem.  We'll send a Private Message to the offender, issue a Moderation point, and ban the person from the thread -- ONLY FROM THE THREAD -- not from the forums!  Just the thread itself!  How I believe this will help in the long run? 1st -- People will actually begin to see how much "moderating" is being done "openly"! 2nd -- By having posts NEVER hidden -- it'll be easy to refer to "past" infractions as a means of "instructing, and correcting". 3rd -- Hopefully people will change their posting styles! People always try to "win a debate"!  In doing so, they forget that sometimes you win -- by laying down the fight for ANOTHER time!  Usually in the "heat of battle" a nasty thing appears -- PRIDE!  Do you not know that "pride is the source of all contentions!"  (Proverbs 13:10a KJV Only by pride cometh contention)  If you're truly wanting to change someone's mind -- you have to be CAREFUL not to offend.  Why?  As Proverbs 18:19 says, "A brother offended is more unyielding than a strong city, and quarreling is like the bars of a castle."  Remember the instruction that Paul gave to Timothy written in 2 Timothy 2:23-26,  Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,  correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.  The hardest part of this passage is being "kind to everyone" and "patiently enduring evil!"  If the first reaction is to trade insult for insult -- then you're failing at being an instructor of the Word!  Notice how it concludes -- that God opens their hearts to the TRUTH -- it's not us -- it's the work of God!  However, we can do a pretty good job of "hindering" someone coming to the knowledge of the truth by purposely "offending" them!  Forgetting by offending them -- you're actually HINDERING the means by which someone comes to the truth. If you have any thoughts, any questions, we're all about transparency -- so ask away! Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George
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  1. Christ in me is the hope of glory. - Col. 1:27

     

    Christ in me gives me the power to labor for the spiritual lives of others. - Col. 1:28,29

     

    I have received and walk in Christ Jesus. - Col. 2:6

     

    In Christ Jesus dwells all the fullnesss of the Godhead bodily. Since I am in Christ Jesus that fullness of the Godhead dwells in me. - Col 2:9

     

    I am complete in Christ Jesus who is the head of all principality and power. - Col 2:10

     

    Since I have been raised up with Christ. I set my mind on the things above, not the things that are on the earth. - Col. 3:12

     

    My former lfe is dead and my reborn life today is hid with Christ in God. - Col. 3:3

     

    I lay aside the old self with its evil practices, and put on the new self who is been renewed in the image of Jesus. -Col. 3:9,10

     

    Since Christ is in every believer then Christ is in me. Christ is all and in all. -Col 3:11

     

    I attend to and fullfill my calling in Christ. - Col. 4:17

     


    ALBERT FINCH MINISTRY

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    missmuffet
    Latest Entry

    Every Day

    in His

    Presence

    Dr. Charles Stanley

    August 20, 2016

    Seek God's Direction

    This also comes from the Lord of hosts, who is

    wonderful in counsel and excellent in guidance

    Isaiah 28:29

    Do you trust God to lead you in a way that is beneficial-a manner

    that is absolutely best for you? If you're like a lot of believers, you

    say you do, but your actions may tell a different story.

    Often we may say we believe the Lord is all-wise and knows

    what is best for us, but then we look for advise from people around

    us. Our pride or refusal to be open to His plan can bring misery

    and regret.

    My friend, listen: only one Person has absolute knowledge, and

    that is the Lord. And He has promised to provide all the guidance

    you need. You can worry, fret, and fume about an issue that God

    has already dealt with-and continue to be miserable. But if you

    will set your heart to trust Him, He will help you obey Him each

    and every time. He will guide you step by step, even when you don't

    see His omnipotent hand.

    Lord, the next time I start to turn to friends

    for direction, stop me! I want to hear from

    You first to know my certain path, amen.

  2. Shalom everyone,

    I created this tutorial so that you can learn how to add and insert images.  You'll also learn how to find images that you've already uploaded and inserted before.

     

    God bless,

    George

  3.  

    The Tribulation Pt 4: The Last Seal is Broken, The Trumpets Prepare to Sound

     

    Picking up from Part 3, we pause for a bit in the course of the seals being broken for John to describe to us a series of events that transpire in both heaven and earth:

     

    “After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:  from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.  (Revelation 7:1-8, NASB)

     

    Here, we find out that God has four angels at this point who are in charge of "the winds" upon the earth. In continuing to read, we find that this is done to prevent harm from begin done to the land, seas or trees until the tribes are sealed by the Lord. So, with this in mind, it seems fair to conclude from text that the "winds" represent forces that would sweep across the planet, both the gentiles "sea" as well as Israel "land". The "trees" most likely would represent vegetation, which always seems to suffer in warfare. It would seem that the Lord puts an abrupt halt to all activity until his chosen from the 12 tribes can be sealed, and he ensures that nothing will interrupt it.

     

    What scripture makes clear here is that people from the tribes from Israel and not those of the church (who is long since safely out of harm's way by this point) are receiving the seal. This could not happen before the Rapture: under the Age of Grace, there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in the Church:

     

    “For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”” (Romans 10:5-13, NASB, emphasis mine)

     

    But the time of the Tribulation is the final “week” in Daniel’s prophecy, and one of the things mentioned is that it will be the time for Israel to finish her responsibilities before the Lord:

     

    “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.” (Daniel 9:24-27, NASB, emphasis mine)

     

    This is one major reason I don’t believe the Church will be here for the Tribulation: Jew or Gentile, there is no distinction between believers in the Lord in the Church. Therefore, they would not be able to fulfill the divinely-given responsibilities of Daniel chapter 9 appointed to the nation of Israel. The Age of Law has to be reinstated as to finish its’ appointed time and for prophecy to be fulfilled (which existed until Pentecost, so Jesus’ sacrifice is still valid even under the Law); this is what Jesus meant by “I have not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it”. (Matthew 5:17, Romans 3:31)

     

    Next, John tells us of a number of people greater that he could count:

     

    " After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;  (Revelation 7:9, NASB)

     

    John sees a vast number of people from every walk of life and part of the planet before Jesus; so many, in fact, that he couldn't count them all. White robes, the sign of purity and righteousness, are indicators that they are washed in Christ's blood and are "clean" of sin. The palm branches, long a sign of peace, are held by all of them. I take this to mean that they have "peace" with the lamb, i.e. that their sins are forgiven and that there is no judgment against them. They do not stand in judgment before him, but in salvation and under his mercy. As they stand there, they are crying to him:

     

    " After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.”  (Revelation 7: 9-12, NASB, emphasis mine)

     

    Their identity is settled in the next passage:

    “Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. “For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. “They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.””(Revelation 7:13-17, NASB, emphasis mine)

     

    This indicates that these people are tribulation believers; those who trusted in the Lord, and paid DEARLY for it. They are the same ones who were under the altar in Revelation 6:9-11, and were asked to wait for a little while, until their numbers were completed. Here, we see that their numbers have swelled so staggeringly, that they cannot be counted! This is the fruit of the 144,000’s testimony, and a demonstration of Israel returning to her place as the nation God intended to “show the way”.

     

    Another thing to notice is that they are praising the Lord on his throne, and the Lamb (Jesus). We do not hear them asking about "judging those on earth", as they were in the previous mention of them in Revelation 6...

     

     

    ...that's about to come.

     

     

    “When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.” (Revelation 8:1-2, NASB)

          After the breaking of the Seventh Seal, All goes silent; not just quiet, but dead silent in heaven. The Greek word used here, ouranō refers not merely to the atmosphere of earth, but to God's realm outside of time and the universe, where his throne is located. There is no singing, praise being spoken, or anything at all from the elders, creatures, saints, angels, anyone.

     

    Then we read:

     

     “Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand." (Revelation 8:3-4, NASB, emphasis mine)

     

    God is about to provide His answer to those who cried out in Revelation chapter 5 to be avenged.

     

    “Precious in the sight of the LORD Is the death of His godly ones.” (Psalm 116:15, NASB)

     

    In Hebrew, the word "precious" is the word yakar; this word literally means "precious, rare, splendid, or weighty". In other words, it means costly. To the Lord, it is costly when one of His dies, and holds great significance and value. He does not take it lightly, and the cries of those who were murdered have not fallen upon deaf ears.

     

    This fits into what is happening in this passage: an angel takes a censer with incense and the prayers of the saints. He brings it before God so the prayers could go up before him. This indicates that God is giving his full consent and blessing to what is about to happen, because the next action is not prevented by him, indeed it is done in front of him! This is his reply to those prayers. The angel next fills the censer with fire from the altar.

     

    Another side note I’d like to share with you is when Isaiah appeared before the throne of God:

     

    “In the year of King Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said, “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory.” And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. Then I said, “Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.” Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. He touched my mouth with it and said, “Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven.  (Isaiah 6:1-7, NASB, emphasis mine)

     

    We see that one coal from the altar was enough to temporarily cleanse Isaiah so that he could stand before the Lord and receive his instructions. The censer that the angel holds is FILLED with coals (fire) from the altar, and has fresh incense so it would CONTINUE burning.

    “Then the angel took the censer and filled it with the fire of the altar, and threw it to the earth; and there followed peals of thunder and sounds and flashes of lightning and an earthquake." (Revelation 8:5, NASB)

    The angel takes the censer, and flings it to the earth; the Greek word used here for "hurl" is balló, from where we get our word ballistic. It means "to cast out", so we can pretty much infer that the angel doesn't just drop the censer off the edge of heaven, shrug and walk back to the throne;  he heaves this censer like an Olympic throwing hammer and hurls it with all of his might at the Earth…

     

     

    It hits the planet hard enough to rock it to its’ very foundations, causing an earthquake, lightning and thunder.

     

     

    But scripture doesn't indicate that this is the end of God's reply to his saints' cries; the next event that comes up is this:

     

    “And the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound them." (Revelation 8:6, NASB)

     

    The next major wave of God's judgment is about to strike the planet; if the first seven were bad, the Trumpet Judgments outweigh their severity greatly.

     

     

    In part 5, we'll witness the second wave of God's judgment on planet earth.

     

     

    I bid you all peace.

     

     

    YBIC,

     

    -Robert

     

     

  4. Another blog entry that was lost and is now resurrected.

     

    1 Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old-womanish tales, and exercise yourself to godliness.

    I saw an inspirational story posted on a Christian forum that talked about a soldier hiding from the enemy in World War II. This soldier took refuge in a cave. He prayed to God and was hidden by a spider web.

    This seems like a nice story, but it turns out to be a story from another religion, from their religious texts. That troubled me. To see a mythological event from a false religion find its way into the culture of English speaking Christians. Can a Christian find morality within a false religion? I don’t think one can. All other religions, if they have morals, are a pale shadow of Christ’s way, and those other religions lead to eternal death. Why bother getting moral stories from false religions when we have the perfect and true religion of following Jesus?

    As the bible tells us, 1 Timothy 1:4 nor to give heed to fables and endless genealogies (which provide doubts rather than the nurture of God in faith). We should instead keep our eye on the Lord. To do as it says in Philippians 4:8-9 Finally, my brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are right, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there is any virtue and if there is any praise, think on these things. Do those things which you have also learned and received and heard and seen in me. And the God of peace shall be with you.

  5. The King is coming,are you ready?

    Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 36No one knowsabout that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.…Matt.24:36

     

  6. “For now we see through a glass, darkly…”

    It is my belief that we gain insights not only from a structured classroom but also from the vast wonderful creation that the Lord places before us. We simply have to ask, “Father, open my eyes that I might see.”

    A few years back I happened to look out my kitchen window and there sat a small, scraggly puppy. He was a cute little thing, but, could we take on another dog? We already had two large Rhodesian Ridgebacks. This little guy looked like a small border collie. It’s not all that uncommon for a stray to show up out here in the country, but seldom do we see young puppies. Normally it’s the older guys that have started to chew on furniture or dig holes in the yard. People just don’t consider all the factors involved when becoming dog owners. Cute little puppies grow up to be dogs. Like children, without the correct training and discipline, they can grow up to have serious problems.

    • Pr 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

    Anyway – here was this pup and I had to check him out. Before I even got close to him I could tell that he was in trouble. He was too weak to run from me. I knelt down and slowly reached for him, thinking he would sniff my hand. He didn’t. Instead he laid his head in my hand and closed his eyes. I caressed him for a short while and then fetched him food and water. I doubted that he had the strength to eat. I went back into the house to give him privacy, and when I went outside a short while later, he had disappeared. I searched but couldn’t find him anywhere. I thought he went off somewhere to die.

     The next morning he was back by the front porch. I got more food and water and again went back into the house. Again, he disappeared. This pattern continued for a few days until I discovered that he was hiding underneath the bushes that lined the house. The next time I fed him I sat on the porch steps, but didn’t reach out to him when he came out to eat. The days passed and with patience and kindness I slowly gained his trust, me sitting on my porch steps and he watching me with one eye while he ate.  He didn’t allow me to handle him until the trust was firmly established. Once he submitted to me, I discovered that he had been severely mistreated.  I later thought of how I was before finding my Savior. The world is a hard place in which to live, especially for a non-believer. It can beat us down, strip us of a desire to live –leave us in a condition just like this little broken pup.

     

    • 1Pe 5:8-9 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour, Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
    •  

    I named him Cabo and he lived in the front yard for a few weeks while gaining in strength and health. The two big dogs lived in the backyard, separated from the world by an electric fence that was never “hot.” Eventually, Cabo became healthy and self assured and one day boldly ducked under the wire and braved the back yard. The female Ridgeback immediately claimed the pup as her own.

    One day, after being a part of the family for a couple of months, hubby and I took some treats out to the dogs. Pigs ears, I think they’re called, and our dogs loved them. The two big brown dogs would gobble them up in minutes. This particular day we handed them out, first to the Ridgebacks, who were aggressive to have them, and then to the little guy. He smelled it, but wasn’t sure what to do with it. He was more interested in getting a pet than he was a treat. I kept holding it out for him and he finally took it, realizing that it was all for him.

    What happened next was a sheer pleasure for me to watch. Cabo wasn’t sure what to do with the treat, so he played with it. And, as he did, his whole demeanor turned to joy. He would toss the treat and then fetch it. He rolled, ran, jumped.  He enjoyed this treat to the fullest. It was the funniest thing to watch. I believe, if given the vocal ability, he would have declared this “the best day ever.”

     

    • Ne 8:10 Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; for the joy of the LORD is your strength.
    •  

    Eventually, the big dogs noticed that the pup still hadn’t eaten his treat. I watched them approach Cabo, slowly and deliberately. Their purpose was clear. The little guy, however, didn’t’ even notice them. He was too busy embracing this newfound joy. The big dogs found a spot to lie down, never taking their eyes off the pig ear. After stern words to the Ridgebacks, I went back inside the house but continued to watch from the windows.

    For the better part of the day Cabo played with his treat. The big dogs stalked him, drooling as they lusted after the pig ear. Of course, they had their own earlier but consumed it so fast they didn’t even enjoy it. Now they wanted his.

    As Christians, do we ever do this? Do we carelessly consume the blessings the Lord gives to each of us, only to envy those of another? How many times do we desire what our brother has, thinking it’s a better treat?

    Unfortunately all puppies grow out of that cute, playful stage. Cabo did as well. His back right leg never fully recovered from the injuries he received before finding his way to our house, but that didn’t slow him down any. Utilizing three legs he could still outrun the other dogs. Had he been placed in a pound I doubt he would have been adopted. The world had left its scars on him and would have rejected him because of it. I found great value, however, in this little dog, simply because he loved me. He never went to his food dish before first coming to me for affection.  When I went into the back yard he was always the first to greet me and stayed the longest. If I stayed outside all day, he would have been by my side the entire time. He lived to please me.

    • Ps 40:7-8 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me.  I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

    Cabo learned discipline well and loved the words of approval afterwards.  As he aged he matured into a calmer dog and one that still looked to his master for attention. The more diligently I worked with him, the deeper the understanding became between us and the stronger the bond. He left behind the playful antics of a pup, but if anything, the joy that he had as a puppy only deepened as he learned that to obey meant more time spent with me.

    • Joh 15:10-11 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

    Cabo became a seasoned backyard warrior. He patrolled the perimeters of his half acre yard, knowing that it was but a small portion of a much larger kingdom. He valiantly ran off the evil truck that regularly attempted to steal his masters’ trash. Every week he fiercely fought to make the steel demon set the dumpster back down, and leave in defeat. There was an alfalfa farm north of a tree line through which he could not see, but he was aware that his master worked there often and that made it important. He didn’t understand about the house either, but he knew it was the dwelling place of the master. Even though he couldn’t see it all, or understand most of it, he knew that he belonged there and that he had ownership.

    My broken puppy lived a good long life. He crawled up to my porch, looking for a place to die, and ended up inheriting a place to live. Certainly the teaching process didn’t always come easy for either of us, but the sacrifice given from both sides enabled a relationship that was enriched far beyond simply “owning a dog.”

    There were times when I felt like Cabo. Broken, lost, nowhere to really belong and call home. But Just like Cabo I found a wealth of joy when I realized that I too was found by my Master. I clearly recall the joy that flooded my heart in my early days with the gifts of mercy and grace that He freely gave. Now, after many years of knowing the greatest gift is Himself, I’ve learned to listen for His voice so I too can walk with Him and have a fullness of joy that is only found in Him and not merely His gifts. Now, like Cabo looking towards the alfalfa field, I too look for the return of my Master, when I will finally see Him face to face.

    • 1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
  7.  

    oblogani.gif The Post-trib position in a nutshell compared with the Bible
    A short Bible study on a topic that some want to make way too complicated - Omegaman
    Post-Trib Belief What the Bible (NASB) Says

    The software here makes formatting difficult. There is an easier to read version if you prefer

    July 28th, 2014 - Omegaman 3.0

     

    There will be a time of trouble Jesus called birth pangs

    You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.7“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8“But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Followed by persecution, even to death, a time of tribulation 9“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. There will be a sign 15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 

    Then the tribulation will be great, but it will be limited

    21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22“Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. After the tribulation, Jesus will come visibly in the sky 29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. He then will send angels to gather His elect 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. In Jesus time, only the Father knew the exact time of Jesus visible return 36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. But it will be like the days of Noah, when calamity overtook the surprised unbelievers 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Believers should also be ready for His return, though they do not know the exact time. 42“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 44“For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

    The Bible, to prevent deception. tells us the order of the events:

    3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
    4And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you."

    Every verse listed so far, was from the 24th Chapter of the book of Matthew. You have just read them yourself, exactly as they are in the bible, and in the same order, so you can see for yourself, what Jesus said about these things.As you can see, He did not use figurative or symbolic language, he was very clear, and used lots of words which indicat time sequences, words like "then" and "at that time". There is no need to spin Jesus' words or make unwarranted assumptions, as many are tempted to do.
    Let's look at some more info from the apostles Paul and from John 

    There will be a time when Jesus catches up (raptures) His church.


    From 1 Thess chapter 4

    Notice again the sequence: The Lord descends from Heaven, a shout, and angel, a trumpet, and those who have died in Christ rise, Then the living Christian join them in the air.


    13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 

    Like Jesus before him, Paul also said there was a sign to look for, a sigh that would appear before our gathering to Him in the rapture. Beleivers are to look for this man, and by that will now that the 2nd coming of Jesus, is then imminent.

    2 Thess 2

    1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 

    Jesus will come like a thief on unbelievers, but watchful Christians will know that He is about to come.

    1 Thess 5

    1Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 

    Since we know that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the rapture (vs 16 & 17 of 1 Thess 4) of the living believers, if we only knew if that resurrection was before or after the tribulation, we could understand if the rapture was before or after the tribulation. Believers who die in the tribulation, for their testimony of Jesus, come to life in the first resurrection, to be followed by the rapture (1 Thess 4:17) rapture.

    4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. 

    This has been a summary of the Post Tribulation Rapture viewpoint, also known as Historic Premillenialism, along with some scripture passages which can be said to support this understanding. There were assertions, and there were supporting verses and passages, without inserting things like an invisible, secret coming (is there even one verse that says that? If so, I have never seen it), and idea that has become popular in modern times.

    I tried to keep this faithful to scripture, I tried to make it simple and clear. Jesus and Paul warned about deceptions to come, I take those warning seriously. Paul had this to say as well:

    3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 2 Tim 4

    I will end with this thought from the book of Acts:

    19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

    Some versions render that as "He must remain in heaven until the time"

    Personally, I find all these verses harmonize perfectly well with each other, and I beleive the Post-Trib rapture position, is consistant with them as well. I hope you found this helpful and informative
     



    (Reply to a question - question asker asked for question to be deleted - but ok to leave answer if name not mentioned)

    Your reply touches on something that is always an issue, the idea of interpretation. I have no idea if I am right or I am wrong, I believe I am right of course, otherwise I would change my view, lol.

    However, where I think my understanding and belief is different from many, is that I try not to interpret at all, I just read, and try to understand. If you read my post, and I assume you did, you will have noticed that I did two things - I stated aspects of the doctrine which I accept, and then I stated the scripture that appears to support those points. 

    You will have noticed that what I did not do was things like:

    "You see where it says 'elect', that is the Jews!" or:

    "See where it says the restrainer?" - that is the Holy Spirit:

    Those sorts of things, are interpretations, I just pointed out scripture and let it speak for itself.

    The things that are usually used to demonstrate a pre-tribulation rapture, are interpretations at best, usually they are arguments from silence, or assumed inferences not warranted by the text.

    For example, all of the ways people try to see a sudden, secret, any moment visit by Jesus, well, it is just odd, since the text never says any such thing. While I know people do not intend harm, it strikes me as dishonest to treat scripture so carelessly.

    Of course, I just stepped on millions of toes with that statement, but it frustrates me that people cannot see the difference between their assumptions and what the Bible actually says, and does not say.

    In my post I didn't even mention all the evidences that demonstrate the errors of pre-trib assumptions, I just tried to give positive evidence for a post trib position, and I did not have to assume or twist anything to do that - just posted scripture. I could still be in error for my understanding, but I do not think my understanding is unreasonable, and I expect that many others might notice that. My main point in my reply, that I would like you to take away, is that stating scripture, is not an interpretation, it is just stating scripture. I pointed out how, those scriptures might represent what I have come to believe. If the difference is not obvious, then I just wasted my time, but it will not be the first time I have done that.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond.

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    Recent Entries

    The_Patriot2016
    Latest Entry

    The Loner

        Recently, Ive been reading a lot of western novels (I know, me, read westerns) And I got to thinking, you know, there are a lot of different "characters" or types of people, in these novels, that all go together, to make the story real, and then I thought, I wondered what would happen, if I made a comparison of these different types of people, to people in the church today, and if it would be relevant. And keep in mind, many of these types, intermix, and share characteristics, and many people change from one to another. They all have strengths, and weaknesses, and when combined can make for a well oiled church. I am going to start a series, discussing these different types of people, their strengths, their weaknesses, and how they can help others, and how to help them.

        The one I'm going to discuss today is "the loner". The loner, is someone who tends to avoid other people, to avoid hurt. In the novels, hes often a hermit, or someone who sticks to himself, often because of some past hurt, loss of a loved one, a fortune, or just burned by to many people. The person is often quiet, stays out of the way and no one thinks twice about them, but usually ends up playing some vital part in the story. Often, this person comes to the realization that they cant hide from all their problems, and there are more important things and people need help, and they come out and save the day.

        The modern day loner, like the ones in the books, tend to carry around a lot of pain, and a lot of baggage, and like the ones in the books, their answer to dealing with it, is basically to retreat inside themselves. They may attend church for awhile, but usually, end up forsaking the church. The pain comes from many sources, personal life, loss of a loved one, sometimes mental issues, and often, even from the church, and their answer is to retreat within themselves. If they are in church they are hiding alone in a back pew, or at home listening to a TV preacher. They have a hard time seeing past the pain and the hurt, and they have grown to not see any good in others.

        Now, they also, usually have big hearts and can be very caring people, they have often been through tough things, and can relate to others, and really be a great person to have in the church family, just for that very reason, but reaching them can be tough. They need to know that they are not alone, and that they are loved, and encouraged to reach out for help, that even though the church isnt perfect it is there for them. It often takes a lot of patience, and prayer, to reach this kind of person, but once you get them on your side, just like in the novels, they can play a instrumental role in your church, and can literally, move mountains. They often work behind the scenes, helping others that feel alone.  Their experience with pain, can be both their greatest weakness-but also their greatest strength.

        Each "loner" is different, about the best advice that can be applied all around, is to pray for them, and love on them, and listen to them, and be very encouraging. Beyond that, each ones different, but will take patience, and a lot of love to earn their trust. Once you do, you will not regret it. And if you are a loner reading this, please, remember, that God does love you, and promises to be there for you-if you let him. And please, I realize the church maybe hurtful, but it does need you, and the talents you alone can provide. Its tough, but try to look for the good in people, remember, God loves you!

    Here are some comforting verses, that may come as comfort to "the loner" in your life. All verses are taken out of the KJV

    Deuteronomy 31:6
    6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.


    Psalm 91:15
    15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.


    Psalm 94:17-18
    17 Unless the Lord had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence.
    18 When I said, My foot slippeth; thy mercy, O Lord, held me up.


    Isaiah 43:1-5 
    43 But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
    2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
    3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
    4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
    5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;


    Matthew 28:20
    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


    John 14:18
    18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you


    1 Timothy 4:16-17
    16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
    17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of 

     

    the loner 2.png

  8. Why is the church divided by denominations?

    Posted by Omegaman 2.0 on the September 4th, 2007

    divisionhalf.jpg

    Why are there so many denominations? Why is the church divided?

    I see these questions occasionally in chat. They are good questions. It is a question Christians have, especially new believers trying to choose their first church. It is a question non-believers have too. For them, it is evidence that Christians cannot even agree on what the Bible says. Truthfully, they are right. In the chatroom, we see this frequently. We have debates over doctrines and understandings, thankfully most of it is good natured, though often passionate. It is also stimulating intellectually, it drives people to the pages of scripture to see what the bible does indeed say about things, so, these differences can have a positive effect. Imagine if we all agreed! Would that necessarily guarantee we were correct, or could we all agree on the same misunderstandings?

    Jude 17-1917 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, “In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

    Notice that in the passage above, divisions are not a good thing. Notice though, that Jude says that these people who cause divisions, are mockers who follow their unGodly lusts, and do not have the Spirit. These people, if we were to follow after them, would lead us away from the things of God. If you separate from your brethren to hang instead with your buddies at a bar, that is real division, not to be compared with denominations at all.

    1 Cor 11:18-20

    18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part, I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, in order that those who are approved may have become evident among you.

    In the above passage, Paul speaks of another kind of division. This one is also not a denominational division, he is addressing division among those gathered together at one place. The passage has a negative feel to it, as though Paul is disapproving of it. You see that in his statement “and in part, I believe it”. Then he goes on to say that these factions have to exist! The reason: So you can distinguish between those who are sound in the faith, and those who do not have approval. Again, in this case, division is a good thing, not a bad thing.

    So, what is a denomination anyway?

    Look at the following definitions from Mirriam-Webster Dictionary:

    3. NAME, DESIGNATION; especially : a general name for a category

    4. A religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices.

    Didn’t see that one coming did you? Notice that a denomination is a uniting factor, not a dividing factor! There is a running joke between on of the other chat administrators and I, about Calvary Chapels. Calvary Chapels are a group of churches, who are self described as non-denominational. In the definitions above, denomination has to do with the name of something. Calvary Chapels have the name Calvary Chapel - obviously. As far as I know, they are united in their beliefs and practices. Do some CCs sprinkle while others dunk? No. Are there any CCs that teach the Jesus will not return for His church until after the great tribulation? I haven’t heard of one. Are their CC’s that do not believe in the perpetuity of the gifts of the Holy Spirit? I don’t think so. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck.

    So what is going one here? Why would a group of churches, who are united in belief, practice, and name, claim to be non-denominational? I have a theory. I believe that it is about marketing. Denominationalism, has a bad reputation. It smacks of stodgy old ways, inflexibility, to some, it is judgmental, rigid, organized religion. To be non-denominational, is hip. It sounds like you stand apart. It is similar to what we have in the states politically, when you register as a non partisan. It sounds like you are independent - have your own thoughts and views. It makes you different. Of course, in the real world, you are unique, just like everybody else.

    We have a church near were I live. It used to be called the First Baptist Church, or something like that (I always wondered where the second Baptist church is, but that is another story). Lately, they took done the familiar name plaque, and put up a very colorful one, now it is called Sonlight Christian Center, or some such thing. Marketing again, I suspect, who wants to hang out with Baptists? Of course, they still are Baptists, but they ‘needed’ a hipper name.

    So, am I against denominations? Am I against independent churches? Am I against churches that say they are but are not? I am not against any of those things. Let’s look at another passage:

    1 Cor 1:10-1310 Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree, and there be no divisions among you, but you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

    That is a type of denominationalism that is not good. We do what these people are doing when we start gathering around a personality, like an author of a series of books, a famous preacher, or even the teachings of a great theologian from church history. Paul is pointing out, that there is only one church. All those who have been forgiven their sins through Jesus’ sacrifice, are the one church. It matter not what you call the church, who pastors it, who founded it, where it is, what language they speak, which bible version they prefer, what worship style they employ, or whether they meet in a beautiful building with hardwoods and stained glass, or an old factory, storefront, or even a home. If Christ is preached and they believe the bible, I am united with them, not divided from them. How can there not be denominations? When their are different countries and languages, customs and tastes, there will be denominations. When everybody belongs to one denomination, all agreeing, you can be sure that something evil or something wonderful has happened. If Jesus has returned for us, then it is something wonderful, until that day, their will be divisions based on preferences, understandings, languages customs, and sadly, even skin color.

    When you are a mature Christian, you will recognize the oneness of the church and stop focusing on petty differences. Do you give offerings only at your church? If so, why? Are there not other churches that have needs greater than yours? When Paul traveled in the first century, the offering he gathered where for other churches, those who were able, helped those who were needy. That is unity. Giving of your substance to other brothers and sisters, because you recognize that they are family.

    I am honored to be a part of Worthychat. Here, we come together from around the world. We are of different denominations, yet here, we are united. Do we squabble? Of course we do, what family doesn’t? Most husbands and wives squabble at times, yet, they remain one flesh, a unity. Differences do not mean you are divided, they just mean there are differences. We are human, God made us as individuals, not clones, celebrate the differences.

    1 Cor 12:12-2712 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body, which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our unseemly members come to have more abundant seemliness, 24 whereas our seemly members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 that there should be no division in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

    I would like to end with one final thought (I could go on and on, but I am feeling merciful tonight). People like to gather with others who are like them, the feel comfortable and part of something. Try to be accommodating in that way toward others, make them feel welcomed. But when you go out to look for a church to be part of, you will be tempted to find one, that suits your tastes and your beliefs. I am all for that, but I would like to caution you to keep things in perspective. Sound doctrine is more important that the style of worship or how nice the facilities are. If you try a new church, give it a chance, attend it three times at least, unless in is plainly scripturally unsound. If you have a personal belief about something, and you want to be around others who share that belief, don’t make it the central thing if it is a peripheral issue or not even a scriptural one, find a church that teaches the Bible, as it is, not with massaged meanings to make it fit what you wish it said. It is O.K. to be uncomfortable too, it can stretch and grow you. O.K., so that was two final thoughts, sue me.

    Thank you for taking the time out of your busy life to read this, now go into the chatroom and join the one body, your brothers and sisters in Christ. Omegaman