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    Who are Worthy Servants?

    By George

    Shalom everyone, Since I've been asked, I'll post up a quick reference guide to what the different functions of ministry are.  We instituted a checks and balances sort of system at Worthy, so that no one person or persons have complete authority. Worthy Steward -- That's me -- and why do I call myself a Steward.  It's merely because I'm a steward of the Lord's ministry.  It's not "my" ministry -- and not "my" work.  It's the Lord's work!    Worthy Servants -- Those are Forum Moderators, who check reported posts, send PM's to keep the peace so to speak, and try to keep this "experiment " running smoothly! Worthy Chat Moderators -- Those are Chat Moderators, who keep Worthy Chat clean, and help "steer" chat. Worthy Watchman -- These are a group of "oversight" individuals, whose role is not to "moderate" but a means of checks and balances to the different moderators.  When things come up -- they are responsible to review Reported Posts, Moderator actions / inactions, and even comment as to "why" things were handled the way they were. Platinum Members -- These are individuals, who help "watch" over the ministry, and have only one "extra" function.  To be able to minister behind the scenes in the chat room as they have Private Message ability. So in essence, the moderation team is a group of individuals who "volunteer" their time, and often get criticized no matter what they do!  Either they are moderating too heavily, not moderating too much, why is this "false" doctrine allowed to be discussed, etc. are some of the common complaints I've heard over the 15+ years we've run Worthy!  It really doesn't change over the years -- just the members.  Many people don't realize how much turnover there is on forum boards!  I'm not sure how many different moderating teams we've gone through -- but it's significant! Past Moderation Style We've always like to keep a clean board. and in the past we removed, hid, and deleted harmful posts.  However, when we do so, many people NEVER see how much moderating is being done behind the scenes!  How many posts are "cleaned up"?  The moderators have a few options at this point.  First, we'll send a Private Message, trying to "steer" people to what is and what is not acceptable.  If this doesn't work, then we will place individuals on "Moderator Review" for a certain period of time.  At this point, most of those individuals placed on Moderator Review never come back.  What most people do not realize is that "Moderator Review" is the last thing we really want to do as moderators -- because it increases our workload!  So what is changed? Changes in Moderation We are simply not "cleaning" up the board any longer.  If someone personally attacks someone, then we will simply leave the attack on the board -- EDIT the post -- leaving it intact, but commenting on the post that we as the moderating team do not feel this is appropriate, and the steps we've taken to fix the problem.  We'll send a Private Message to the offender, issue a Moderation point, and ban the person from the thread -- ONLY FROM THE THREAD -- not from the forums!  Just the thread itself!  How I believe this will help in the long run? 1st -- People will actually begin to see how much "moderating" is being done "openly"! 2nd -- By having posts NEVER hidden -- it'll be easy to refer to "past" infractions as a means of "instructing, and correcting". 3rd -- Hopefully people will change their posting styles! People always try to "win a debate"!  In doing so, they forget that sometimes you win -- by laying down the fight for ANOTHER time!  Usually in the "heat of battle" a nasty thing appears -- PRIDE!  Do you not know that "pride is the source of all contentions!"  (Proverbs 13:10a KJV Only by pride cometh contention)  If you're truly wanting to change someone's mind -- you have to be CAREFUL not to offend.  Why?  As Proverbs 18:19 says, "A brother offended is more unyielding than a strong city, and quarreling is like the bars of a castle."  Remember the instruction that Paul gave to Timothy written in 2 Timothy 2:23-26,  Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,  correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.  The hardest part of this passage is being "kind to everyone" and "patiently enduring evil!"  If the first reaction is to trade insult for insult -- then you're failing at being an instructor of the Word!  Notice how it concludes -- that God opens their hearts to the TRUTH -- it's not us -- it's the work of God!  However, we can do a pretty good job of "hindering" someone coming to the knowledge of the truth by purposely "offending" them!  Forgetting by offending them -- you're actually HINDERING the means by which someone comes to the truth. If you have any thoughts, any questions, we're all about transparency -- so ask away! Your brother in the Lord with much agape love, George

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    Every Day

    in His


    Dr. Charles Stanley

    October 27, 2016

    Finding God

    Teach me Your way, O Lord,

    And lead me in a level path.

    Psalm 27:11

    Most people don't like to admit when they don't know something.

    Even if it means going in circles for hours, many of us would rather

    stumble upon the right answer ourselves than ask for help.

    The same can be said of our Christian walk. We may believe that

    the Father has a specific purpose for our lives and unique blessings

    set aside for us, and yet not seek Him to tell us what He has planned.

    But how can we arrive at God's destination if we do not consult the

    only One who knows where we are going and how to get there?

    Friend, God's will is not something that you can find through

    trial and error. Rather, you discover it through your intimate relationship

    with Him-through prayer and Bible study as you strive to

    know Him better.

    If you have been on a quest to "find God" or "track down His

    will," stop searching and simply talk to Him. He knows where you

    are, and He knows exactly where you need to go. No road map

    could promise more.

    Father, may I not waste precious time

    wandering when I can go directly to You

    and seek direction for my life, amen




  1. Revelation 3:17 - "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou are wreched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire..."


    We are living in the time of the Laodicean Church, which we are told is "rich and increased with goods" (Revelation 3:17).Therefore, most of us are too busy to spend much time in prayer. We must place a high value on the time that we spend alone with the Lord, or it will be overtaken and replaced with activities. This "set apart time to be alone with the Lord" must constantly be contended for.
    Our Lord is very sensitive about "room being made" for Him, as, when He was born into this world, there was "no room" in the inn. Thus, when anyone of us actively determines to make room for Him, He quickly notices and responds.








    Galatians 4:19 - "My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you."
    Hebrews 4:10,11 - "For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His. Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."






    Revelation 3:18 - "So I advise you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, to make you truly rich and white clothes to put on to hide the shame of your nakedness, and ointment for your eyes so that you may see."








  2.                                         The Scroll




    God promised His Son & Heir the nations as His inheritance, (Ps. 2: 8)  & said He would bring them to Christ`s footstool, (for His possession – Ps. 110: 1) Christ then will deal with these nations plus deliver Israel from its enemies.


    When Christ is given the scroll, only He is able to open & read what is written. This is symbolic of Him receiving the authority over the earth & bringing the judgments that have been sealed up by God.  This `sealing up,` is represented by the 7 seals, showing that it will be a complete judgment upon the nations.   (7 in Heb. means to be complete)


    This judgment is upon the rebellious nations of the earth who operate under the control & power of Satan. They consider that they control their own affairs & that they are the sole arbiter of their destiny. But Satan & the nations however, do not have the final say. There is a higher authority controlling the world systems & shaping the nations according to His Divine Will.


    As the Lord Jesus Christ opens the scroll we are shown how He is bringing mankind to judgment. He gathers the nations into large confederacies, exposes their motives, and then corrals them into one area for judgement.






    The first Great Federation being brought to judgment has a crown & has been conquering. This is the British Commonwealth (& America) which is ruled by a Monarch, (crown).


    The second Great Federation has shed much blood. This is the Russian Federation that has killed over 40 million people in its prisons & concentration camps.


    The third Great Federation has brought economic poverty to the world. This is the European Union with its philosophy of a common market (free trade), that the world has embraced.


    These nations are brought to Christ`s feet, ready for judgment.


     The final Great Federation only comes to power in the tribulation & treads down the others, for Satan himself & his demons give it his power & authority. This is the demonic force of Islam.


    As the Lord then opens the scroll further we are shown the martyrs whom Christ will avenge, then the final cataclysmic judgments shaking the heavens & the earth to such an extent that even great leaders & mighty men are hiding, fearful of God`s wrath.


    Amid these terrible judgments there are people who repent – the 144,000 priests of Israel & the great multitude.


    Finally the 7th seal is opened & there is silence in heaven. There are no more thundering & lightnings of judgments for the Lord has left the third heaven & will then be on His way to earth to deliver Israel & judge the people of the nations.      


  3. In part 7, we heard the Seventh Trumpet sound, ending the trumpet series of judgments. Now, as we continue on in this series, we witness a great and awesome sight:

    " A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.(Revelation 12:1-2, NASB)

    We see a woman envisioned in this sight; that precludes this from being God or an angel due to the fact that the Lord or the angels he sends are always referenced as "he". The description of being "clothed in the sun" tells us that there is radiance about this woman, while the moon being under her feet means her feet are shod with the moon; these allude to Genesis 37:9-10, where the sun and moon are symbolic of Jacob and Rachael. The 12 stars above the woman's head indicate the 12 sons of Jacob (Israel), which in themselves represented the 12 Tribes of Israel. The number 12 has always represented Israel in the Old Testament, and during the Tribulation, Israel is once again under the Law, as it was in the OT. By contrast, "MYSTERY BABYLON" in Revelation 17 is depicted as being "drunk with the blood of the saints", and riding a beast; a far cry from this woman.

    The woman in this vision is Israel, and she is about to give birth.

    Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.” (Revelation 12:3-4, NASB)

    Unlike v1-2, the next two verses are pretty clear on who the dragon is: Satan. His color is red, which here would appear to symbolize blood and the shedding of it. This is not blood shed of himself sacrificially as Jesus did, but blood shed of others by murder and carnage. Satan, as described by Jesus:

    "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (John 8:44, NASB, emphasis mine)

    The "third of the stars in heaven" refers to a third of the angels that followed Satan in his rebellion. This seems to glimpse back to a point in time where they rebelled and were cast down to the Earth. That Satan is standing in front of this woman to "devour" her child means that he seeks to destroy the child she will bring forth, thus ending its existence moments after it is born. He considers the child a threat that must be subsumed by him. And the only true threat to Satan is anything that will remove him from his perceived position of power over the Earth. In scripture, we see this played out when Herod the Great ordered the murder of all the children age 2 and younger in Bethlehem; the assault from Satan upon the infant Christ.

    "And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days." (Revelation 12:5-6, NASB)

    This seals the identity of the Child: it is the Lord Jesus Christ, born of the seed of a woman. It is now that we realize that we are looking symbolically at several points in time for both the woman and the dragon: the beginning for both; the focal point of history where they clash, the current moment they are in, and the moment in the Tribulation as John is seeing it revealed. The child being snatched up to Heaven is the Ascension of Jesus, and the subsequent event of the woman fleeing into the desert is Israel fleeing from Satan, a foreshadowing of Revelation 13's events. The word “then” in the passage denotes this as an event after the Ascension of Jesus, but since we are looking at great swaths of time, it doesn’t happen right after the Ascension. 1,260 days is 3 and 1/2 years, the remainder of the Tribulation. We are seeing in this vision an abridged history of the enmity between the Devil and Israel, and ultimately the Devil and Christ:

    "And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel. (Genesis 3:15, NASB)

    But as the vision ends, John sees another event: one of great magnitude. And we see why Satan was described previously: he is removed from God's presence...

    ...BY FORCE:

    "And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."   (Revelation 12: 7-9, NASB)

    The descriptor of "dragon" is now directly connected to Satan, identifying him as the same one in the vision. And it is that same dragon, Satan, who along with his minions is thrown out of heaven and land on the Earth. As this happens, there is great rejoicing in heaven:

    "Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them.”" (Revelation 10-12a, NASB)

    But with it, a warning for those on the Earth, Jew and Gentile alike:

    "”Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.””(Revelation 12:12b, NASB)

    And this should alert those reading this verse, because at this point in the Tribulation, the Earth is already being bombarded by judgments. Satan and his minions, no longer having free access to Heaven, will take their anger out their ancient enemy, mankind, and in specific, Israel:

    "And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.” (Revelation 12:13-16, NASB)

    Satan, enraged at his swift, unexpected "departure" from God's throne room, takes his wrath out first on Israel. But The Lord intervenes for her, giving her swiftness and silence to flee to a place of safety prepared for her in the desert where God would feed and protect her until the end of the Tribulation. Satan, who is unwilling to take "no" for any sort of answer, becomes even more defiant and proceeds to send "water" after her. Since literal water is obviously not meant here, what we are seeing in this is Satan sending an overwhelming force (perhaps military or possibly world opinion) after Israel in order to prevent her escape. but the "flood" is itself halted by “the Earth” absorbing what the Adversary sent to inundate her.

    (Yes, that one puzzles me as well!)

    Satan then turns his attentions on those that have accepted Christ as their savior during the Tribulation:

    "So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” (Revelation 12:17, NASB)


    As a side note: This is yet another reason why the entire Tribulation is referred to as the time of God's wrath: Satan only enters directly into it after being cast out of heaven halfway through it. It demonstrates further that Satan is not in charge of the Tribulation…


    ...God is.

    Satan is at this point ready (and more than willing) to demonstrate just how nasty he can truly be. His "masterpiece" is ready to come upon the planet, and the entire world is about to see what happens when “the god of this world” taken open control of the planet.


    Sin fails, and in the Tribulation, we get to see just how badly it does so.

    In part 9, we will see the emergence of The Beast.

    I bid you all peace.




  4. Shalom everyone,

    I created this tutorial so that you can learn how to add and insert images.  You'll also learn how to find images that you've already uploaded and inserted before.


    God bless,


  5. Another blog entry that was lost and is now resurrected.


    1 Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old-womanish tales, and exercise yourself to godliness.

    I saw an inspirational story posted on a Christian forum that talked about a soldier hiding from the enemy in World War II. This soldier took refuge in a cave. He prayed to God and was hidden by a spider web.

    This seems like a nice story, but it turns out to be a story from another religion, from their religious texts. That troubled me. To see a mythological event from a false religion find its way into the culture of English speaking Christians. Can a Christian find morality within a false religion? I don’t think one can. All other religions, if they have morals, are a pale shadow of Christ’s way, and those other religions lead to eternal death. Why bother getting moral stories from false religions when we have the perfect and true religion of following Jesus?

    As the bible tells us, 1 Timothy 1:4 nor to give heed to fables and endless genealogies (which provide doubts rather than the nurture of God in faith). We should instead keep our eye on the Lord. To do as it says in Philippians 4:8-9 Finally, my brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are right, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there is any virtue and if there is any praise, think on these things. Do those things which you have also learned and received and heard and seen in me. And the God of peace shall be with you.

  6. The King is coming,are you ready?

    Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 36No one knowsabout that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.…Matt.24:36


  7. “For now we see through a glass, darkly…”

    It is my belief that we gain insights not only from a structured classroom but also from the vast wonderful creation that the Lord places before us. We simply have to ask, “Father, open my eyes that I might see.”

    A few years back I happened to look out my kitchen window and there sat a small, scraggly puppy. He was a cute little thing, but, could we take on another dog? We already had two large Rhodesian Ridgebacks. This little guy looked like a small border collie. It’s not all that uncommon for a stray to show up out here in the country, but seldom do we see young puppies. Normally it’s the older guys that have started to chew on furniture or dig holes in the yard. People just don’t consider all the factors involved when becoming dog owners. Cute little puppies grow up to be dogs. Like children, without the correct training and discipline, they can grow up to have serious problems.

    • Pr 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

    Anyway – here was this pup and I had to check him out. Before I even got close to him I could tell that he was in trouble. He was too weak to run from me. I knelt down and slowly reached for him, thinking he would sniff my hand. He didn’t. Instead he laid his head in my hand and closed his eyes. I caressed him for a short while and then fetched him food and water. I doubted that he had the strength to eat. I went back into the house to give him privacy, and when I went outside a short while later, he had disappeared. I searched but couldn’t find him anywhere. I thought he went off somewhere to die.

     The next morning he was back by the front porch. I got more food and water and again went back into the house. Again, he disappeared. This pattern continued for a few days until I discovered that he was hiding underneath the bushes that lined the house. The next time I fed him I sat on the porch steps, but didn’t reach out to him when he came out to eat. The days passed and with patience and kindness I slowly gained his trust, me sitting on my porch steps and he watching me with one eye while he ate.  He didn’t allow me to handle him until the trust was firmly established. Once he submitted to me, I discovered that he had been severely mistreated.  I later thought of how I was before finding my Savior. The world is a hard place in which to live, especially for a non-believer. It can beat us down, strip us of a desire to live –leave us in a condition just like this little broken pup.


    • 1Pe 5:8-9 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour, Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

    I named him Cabo and he lived in the front yard for a few weeks while gaining in strength and health. The two big dogs lived in the backyard, separated from the world by an electric fence that was never “hot.” Eventually, Cabo became healthy and self assured and one day boldly ducked under the wire and braved the back yard. The female Ridgeback immediately claimed the pup as her own.

    One day, after being a part of the family for a couple of months, hubby and I took some treats out to the dogs. Pigs ears, I think they’re called, and our dogs loved them. The two big brown dogs would gobble them up in minutes. This particular day we handed them out, first to the Ridgebacks, who were aggressive to have them, and then to the little guy. He smelled it, but wasn’t sure what to do with it. He was more interested in getting a pet than he was a treat. I kept holding it out for him and he finally took it, realizing that it was all for him.

    What happened next was a sheer pleasure for me to watch. Cabo wasn’t sure what to do with the treat, so he played with it. And, as he did, his whole demeanor turned to joy. He would toss the treat and then fetch it. He rolled, ran, jumped.  He enjoyed this treat to the fullest. It was the funniest thing to watch. I believe, if given the vocal ability, he would have declared this “the best day ever.”


    • Ne 8:10 Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; for the joy of the LORD is your strength.

    Eventually, the big dogs noticed that the pup still hadn’t eaten his treat. I watched them approach Cabo, slowly and deliberately. Their purpose was clear. The little guy, however, didn’t’ even notice them. He was too busy embracing this newfound joy. The big dogs found a spot to lie down, never taking their eyes off the pig ear. After stern words to the Ridgebacks, I went back inside the house but continued to watch from the windows.

    For the better part of the day Cabo played with his treat. The big dogs stalked him, drooling as they lusted after the pig ear. Of course, they had their own earlier but consumed it so fast they didn’t even enjoy it. Now they wanted his.

    As Christians, do we ever do this? Do we carelessly consume the blessings the Lord gives to each of us, only to envy those of another? How many times do we desire what our brother has, thinking it’s a better treat?

    Unfortunately all puppies grow out of that cute, playful stage. Cabo did as well. His back right leg never fully recovered from the injuries he received before finding his way to our house, but that didn’t slow him down any. Utilizing three legs he could still outrun the other dogs. Had he been placed in a pound I doubt he would have been adopted. The world had left its scars on him and would have rejected him because of it. I found great value, however, in this little dog, simply because he loved me. He never went to his food dish before first coming to me for affection.  When I went into the back yard he was always the first to greet me and stayed the longest. If I stayed outside all day, he would have been by my side the entire time. He lived to please me.

    • Ps 40:7-8 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me.  I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

    Cabo learned discipline well and loved the words of approval afterwards.  As he aged he matured into a calmer dog and one that still looked to his master for attention. The more diligently I worked with him, the deeper the understanding became between us and the stronger the bond. He left behind the playful antics of a pup, but if anything, the joy that he had as a puppy only deepened as he learned that to obey meant more time spent with me.

    • Joh 15:10-11 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

    Cabo became a seasoned backyard warrior. He patrolled the perimeters of his half acre yard, knowing that it was but a small portion of a much larger kingdom. He valiantly ran off the evil truck that regularly attempted to steal his masters’ trash. Every week he fiercely fought to make the steel demon set the dumpster back down, and leave in defeat. There was an alfalfa farm north of a tree line through which he could not see, but he was aware that his master worked there often and that made it important. He didn’t understand about the house either, but he knew it was the dwelling place of the master. Even though he couldn’t see it all, or understand most of it, he knew that he belonged there and that he had ownership.

    My broken puppy lived a good long life. He crawled up to my porch, looking for a place to die, and ended up inheriting a place to live. Certainly the teaching process didn’t always come easy for either of us, but the sacrifice given from both sides enabled a relationship that was enriched far beyond simply “owning a dog.”

    There were times when I felt like Cabo. Broken, lost, nowhere to really belong and call home. But Just like Cabo I found a wealth of joy when I realized that I too was found by my Master. I clearly recall the joy that flooded my heart in my early days with the gifts of mercy and grace that He freely gave. Now, after many years of knowing the greatest gift is Himself, I’ve learned to listen for His voice so I too can walk with Him and have a fullness of joy that is only found in Him and not merely His gifts. Now, like Cabo looking towards the alfalfa field, I too look for the return of my Master, when I will finally see Him face to face.

    • 1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    oblogani.gif The Post-trib position in a nutshell compared with the Bible
    A short Bible study on a topic that some want to make way too complicated - Omegaman
    Post-Trib Belief What the Bible (NASB) Says

    The software here makes formatting difficult. There is an easier to read version if you prefer

    July 28th, 2014 - Omegaman 3.0


    There will be a time of trouble Jesus called birth pangs

    You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.7“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8“But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Followed by persecution, even to death, a time of tribulation 9“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. There will be a sign 15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 

    Then the tribulation will be great, but it will be limited

    21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22“Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. After the tribulation, Jesus will come visibly in the sky 29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. He then will send angels to gather His elect 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. In Jesus time, only the Father knew the exact time of Jesus visible return 36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. But it will be like the days of Noah, when calamity overtook the surprised unbelievers 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Believers should also be ready for His return, though they do not know the exact time. 42“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 44“For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

    The Bible, to prevent deception. tells us the order of the events:

    3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
    4And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you."

    Every verse listed so far, was from the 24th Chapter of the book of Matthew. You have just read them yourself, exactly as they are in the bible, and in the same order, so you can see for yourself, what Jesus said about these things.As you can see, He did not use figurative or symbolic language, he was very clear, and used lots of words which indicat time sequences, words like "then" and "at that time". There is no need to spin Jesus' words or make unwarranted assumptions, as many are tempted to do.
    Let's look at some more info from the apostles Paul and from John 

    There will be a time when Jesus catches up (raptures) His church.

    From 1 Thess chapter 4

    Notice again the sequence: The Lord descends from Heaven, a shout, and angel, a trumpet, and those who have died in Christ rise, Then the living Christian join them in the air.

    13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 

    Like Jesus before him, Paul also said there was a sign to look for, a sigh that would appear before our gathering to Him in the rapture. Beleivers are to look for this man, and by that will now that the 2nd coming of Jesus, is then imminent.

    2 Thess 2

    1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 

    Jesus will come like a thief on unbelievers, but watchful Christians will know that He is about to come.

    1 Thess 5

    1Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 

    Since we know that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the rapture (vs 16 & 17 of 1 Thess 4) of the living believers, if we only knew if that resurrection was before or after the tribulation, we could understand if the rapture was before or after the tribulation. Believers who die in the tribulation, for their testimony of Jesus, come to life in the first resurrection, to be followed by the rapture (1 Thess 4:17) rapture.

    4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. 

    This has been a summary of the Post Tribulation Rapture viewpoint, also known as Historic Premillenialism, along with some scripture passages which can be said to support this understanding. There were assertions, and there were supporting verses and passages, without inserting things like an invisible, secret coming (is there even one verse that says that? If so, I have never seen it), and idea that has become popular in modern times.

    I tried to keep this faithful to scripture, I tried to make it simple and clear. Jesus and Paul warned about deceptions to come, I take those warning seriously. Paul had this to say as well:

    3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 2 Tim 4

    I will end with this thought from the book of Acts:

    19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

    Some versions render that as "He must remain in heaven until the time"

    Personally, I find all these verses harmonize perfectly well with each other, and I beleive the Post-Trib rapture position, is consistant with them as well. I hope you found this helpful and informative

    (Reply to a question - question asker asked for question to be deleted - but ok to leave answer if name not mentioned)

    Your reply touches on something that is always an issue, the idea of interpretation. I have no idea if I am right or I am wrong, I believe I am right of course, otherwise I would change my view, lol.

    However, where I think my understanding and belief is different from many, is that I try not to interpret at all, I just read, and try to understand. If you read my post, and I assume you did, you will have noticed that I did two things - I stated aspects of the doctrine which I accept, and then I stated the scripture that appears to support those points. 

    You will have noticed that what I did not do was things like:

    "You see where it says 'elect', that is the Jews!" or:

    "See where it says the restrainer?" - that is the Holy Spirit:

    Those sorts of things, are interpretations, I just pointed out scripture and let it speak for itself.

    The things that are usually used to demonstrate a pre-tribulation rapture, are interpretations at best, usually they are arguments from silence, or assumed inferences not warranted by the text.

    For example, all of the ways people try to see a sudden, secret, any moment visit by Jesus, well, it is just odd, since the text never says any such thing. While I know people do not intend harm, it strikes me as dishonest to treat scripture so carelessly.

    Of course, I just stepped on millions of toes with that statement, but it frustrates me that people cannot see the difference between their assumptions and what the Bible actually says, and does not say.

    In my post I didn't even mention all the evidences that demonstrate the errors of pre-trib assumptions, I just tried to give positive evidence for a post trib position, and I did not have to assume or twist anything to do that - just posted scripture. I could still be in error for my understanding, but I do not think my understanding is unreasonable, and I expect that many others might notice that. My main point in my reply, that I would like you to take away, is that stating scripture, is not an interpretation, it is just stating scripture. I pointed out how, those scriptures might represent what I have come to believe. If the difference is not obvious, then I just wasted my time, but it will not be the first time I have done that.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond.

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    Recent Entries

    Latest Entry

    The Loner

        Recently, Ive been reading a lot of western novels (I know, me, read westerns) And I got to thinking, you know, there are a lot of different "characters" or types of people, in these novels, that all go together, to make the story real, and then I thought, I wondered what would happen, if I made a comparison of these different types of people, to people in the church today, and if it would be relevant. And keep in mind, many of these types, intermix, and share characteristics, and many people change from one to another. They all have strengths, and weaknesses, and when combined can make for a well oiled church. I am going to start a series, discussing these different types of people, their strengths, their weaknesses, and how they can help others, and how to help them.

        The one I'm going to discuss today is "the loner". The loner, is someone who tends to avoid other people, to avoid hurt. In the novels, hes often a hermit, or someone who sticks to himself, often because of some past hurt, loss of a loved one, a fortune, or just burned by to many people. The person is often quiet, stays out of the way and no one thinks twice about them, but usually ends up playing some vital part in the story. Often, this person comes to the realization that they cant hide from all their problems, and there are more important things and people need help, and they come out and save the day.

        The modern day loner, like the ones in the books, tend to carry around a lot of pain, and a lot of baggage, and like the ones in the books, their answer to dealing with it, is basically to retreat inside themselves. They may attend church for awhile, but usually, end up forsaking the church. The pain comes from many sources, personal life, loss of a loved one, sometimes mental issues, and often, even from the church, and their answer is to retreat within themselves. If they are in church they are hiding alone in a back pew, or at home listening to a TV preacher. They have a hard time seeing past the pain and the hurt, and they have grown to not see any good in others.

        Now, they also, usually have big hearts and can be very caring people, they have often been through tough things, and can relate to others, and really be a great person to have in the church family, just for that very reason, but reaching them can be tough. They need to know that they are not alone, and that they are loved, and encouraged to reach out for help, that even though the church isnt perfect it is there for them. It often takes a lot of patience, and prayer, to reach this kind of person, but once you get them on your side, just like in the novels, they can play a instrumental role in your church, and can literally, move mountains. They often work behind the scenes, helping others that feel alone.  Their experience with pain, can be both their greatest weakness-but also their greatest strength.

        Each "loner" is different, about the best advice that can be applied all around, is to pray for them, and love on them, and listen to them, and be very encouraging. Beyond that, each ones different, but will take patience, and a lot of love to earn their trust. Once you do, you will not regret it. And if you are a loner reading this, please, remember, that God does love you, and promises to be there for you-if you let him. And please, I realize the church maybe hurtful, but it does need you, and the talents you alone can provide. Its tough, but try to look for the good in people, remember, God loves you!

    Here are some comforting verses, that may come as comfort to "the loner" in your life. All verses are taken out of the KJV

    Deuteronomy 31:6
    6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

    Psalm 91:15
    15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

    Psalm 94:17-18
    17 Unless the Lord had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence.
    18 When I said, My foot slippeth; thy mercy, O Lord, held me up.

    Isaiah 43:1-5 
    43 But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
    2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
    3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
    4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
    5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

    Matthew 28:20
    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    John 14:18
    18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you

    1 Timothy 4:16-17
    16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
    17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of 


    the loner 2.png

  9. Why is the church divided by denominations?

    Posted by Omegaman 2.0 on the September 4th, 2007


    Why are there so many denominations? Why is the church divided?

    I see these questions occasionally in chat. They are good questions. It is a question Christians have, especially new believers trying to choose their first church. It is a question non-believers have too. For them, it is evidence that Christians cannot even agree on what the Bible says. Truthfully, they are right. In the chatroom, we see this frequently. We have debates over doctrines and understandings, thankfully most of it is good natured, though often passionate. It is also stimulating intellectually, it drives people to the pages of scripture to see what the bible does indeed say about things, so, these differences can have a positive effect. Imagine if we all agreed! Would that necessarily guarantee we were correct, or could we all agree on the same misunderstandings?

    Jude 17-1917 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, “In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

    Notice that in the passage above, divisions are not a good thing. Notice though, that Jude says that these people who cause divisions, are mockers who follow their unGodly lusts, and do not have the Spirit. These people, if we were to follow after them, would lead us away from the things of God. If you separate from your brethren to hang instead with your buddies at a bar, that is real division, not to be compared with denominations at all.

    1 Cor 11:18-20

    18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part, I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, in order that those who are approved may have become evident among you.

    In the above passage, Paul speaks of another kind of division. This one is also not a denominational division, he is addressing division among those gathered together at one place. The passage has a negative feel to it, as though Paul is disapproving of it. You see that in his statement “and in part, I believe it”. Then he goes on to say that these factions have to exist! The reason: So you can distinguish between those who are sound in the faith, and those who do not have approval. Again, in this case, division is a good thing, not a bad thing.

    So, what is a denomination anyway?

    Look at the following definitions from Mirriam-Webster Dictionary:

    3. NAME, DESIGNATION; especially : a general name for a category

    4. A religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices.

    Didn’t see that one coming did you? Notice that a denomination is a uniting factor, not a dividing factor! There is a running joke between on of the other chat administrators and I, about Calvary Chapels. Calvary Chapels are a group of churches, who are self described as non-denominational. In the definitions above, denomination has to do with the name of something. Calvary Chapels have the name Calvary Chapel - obviously. As far as I know, they are united in their beliefs and practices. Do some CCs sprinkle while others dunk? No. Are there any CCs that teach the Jesus will not return for His church until after the great tribulation? I haven’t heard of one. Are their CC’s that do not believe in the perpetuity of the gifts of the Holy Spirit? I don’t think so. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck.

    So what is going one here? Why would a group of churches, who are united in belief, practice, and name, claim to be non-denominational? I have a theory. I believe that it is about marketing. Denominationalism, has a bad reputation. It smacks of stodgy old ways, inflexibility, to some, it is judgmental, rigid, organized religion. To be non-denominational, is hip. It sounds like you stand apart. It is similar to what we have in the states politically, when you register as a non partisan. It sounds like you are independent - have your own thoughts and views. It makes you different. Of course, in the real world, you are unique, just like everybody else.

    We have a church near were I live. It used to be called the First Baptist Church, or something like that (I always wondered where the second Baptist church is, but that is another story). Lately, they took done the familiar name plaque, and put up a very colorful one, now it is called Sonlight Christian Center, or some such thing. Marketing again, I suspect, who wants to hang out with Baptists? Of course, they still are Baptists, but they ‘needed’ a hipper name.

    So, am I against denominations? Am I against independent churches? Am I against churches that say they are but are not? I am not against any of those things. Let’s look at another passage:

    1 Cor 1:10-1310 Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree, and there be no divisions among you, but you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

    That is a type of denominationalism that is not good. We do what these people are doing when we start gathering around a personality, like an author of a series of books, a famous preacher, or even the teachings of a great theologian from church history. Paul is pointing out, that there is only one church. All those who have been forgiven their sins through Jesus’ sacrifice, are the one church. It matter not what you call the church, who pastors it, who founded it, where it is, what language they speak, which bible version they prefer, what worship style they employ, or whether they meet in a beautiful building with hardwoods and stained glass, or an old factory, storefront, or even a home. If Christ is preached and they believe the bible, I am united with them, not divided from them. How can there not be denominations? When their are different countries and languages, customs and tastes, there will be denominations. When everybody belongs to one denomination, all agreeing, you can be sure that something evil or something wonderful has happened. If Jesus has returned for us, then it is something wonderful, until that day, their will be divisions based on preferences, understandings, languages customs, and sadly, even skin color.

    When you are a mature Christian, you will recognize the oneness of the church and stop focusing on petty differences. Do you give offerings only at your church? If so, why? Are there not other churches that have needs greater than yours? When Paul traveled in the first century, the offering he gathered where for other churches, those who were able, helped those who were needy. That is unity. Giving of your substance to other brothers and sisters, because you recognize that they are family.

    I am honored to be a part of Worthychat. Here, we come together from around the world. We are of different denominations, yet here, we are united. Do we squabble? Of course we do, what family doesn’t? Most husbands and wives squabble at times, yet, they remain one flesh, a unity. Differences do not mean you are divided, they just mean there are differences. We are human, God made us as individuals, not clones, celebrate the differences.

    1 Cor 12:12-2712 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body, which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our unseemly members come to have more abundant seemliness, 24 whereas our seemly members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 that there should be no division in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.

    I would like to end with one final thought (I could go on and on, but I am feeling merciful tonight). People like to gather with others who are like them, the feel comfortable and part of something. Try to be accommodating in that way toward others, make them feel welcomed. But when you go out to look for a church to be part of, you will be tempted to find one, that suits your tastes and your beliefs. I am all for that, but I would like to caution you to keep things in perspective. Sound doctrine is more important that the style of worship or how nice the facilities are. If you try a new church, give it a chance, attend it three times at least, unless in is plainly scripturally unsound. If you have a personal belief about something, and you want to be around others who share that belief, don’t make it the central thing if it is a peripheral issue or not even a scriptural one, find a church that teaches the Bible, as it is, not with massaged meanings to make it fit what you wish it said. It is O.K. to be uncomfortable too, it can stretch and grow you. O.K., so that was two final thoughts, sue me.

    Thank you for taking the time out of your busy life to read this, now go into the chatroom and join the one body, your brothers and sisters in Christ. Omegaman