Forums

  1. Worthy Welcome

    1. Worthy Welcome

      Shalom! Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums, introduce yourself and join our Christian community!

      31,511
      posts
    2. Seekers Lounge

      Guests feel free to post any questions you may have!

      2,017
      posts
  2. Outer Court

    1. Outer Court

      A place for nonbelievers to ask questions and interact with Christians.

      48,995
      posts
    2. Worthy Q & A for Seekers

      ... for seekers asking serious questions.  We'll try our best to respond.  Please just one question at a time.

      99
      posts
    3. 93,841
      posts
    4. Soapbox Debate

      One on one discussions on specific topics! Nobody may reply, or start topics but everyone may read the discussions!

      629
      posts
  3. Inner Court

    1. Study Group

      Join our online studies! Only those part of the ministry can start topics in this forum, although anyone may reply to any topic started!

      5,845
      posts
    2. Worthy Q & A

      Ask a question, members can vote on the best answer.

      298
      posts
    3. 341,027
      posts
    4. 72,447
      posts
    5. Doctrinal Questions

      Have a doctrinal question? Ask it in this forum

      142,967
      posts
    6. Controversial Issues

      Anyone may read these forums, but you must be an Junior Member [100 posts] to join the controversy!

      115,459
      posts
    7. 42,742
      posts
    8. Prayer Requests

      Submit your prayer requests, and intercede for others who need prayer.

      19,814
      posts
    9. Praises

      What can you praise God about today?

      17,846
      posts
  4. Current News

    1. 28,297
      posts
    2. 58,935
      posts
    3. 26,532
      posts
    4. 90,553
      posts
    5. Christian News

      Discussions of news directly related to Christians and the persecution of Christians.

      6,036
      posts
    6. Finance

      Discussions of finance, stock market, and other financial matters.

      945
      posts
    7. 13,967
      posts
  5. Upper Room

    1. 251,759
      posts
    2. Absolutely Positive!

      Uplifting and Encouraging Discussions!

      15,590
      posts
    3. Humor! Need a good laugh?

      Share humorous jokes and stories

      44,890
      posts
    4. Testimonies

      Post your testimonials here!

      4,462
      posts
    5. 11,979
      posts
    6. 2,351
      posts
    7. 8,916
      posts
    8. 5,811
      posts
    9. Worthy Chatter Discussions

      Discussions pertaining to Worthy Chat -- our online live chat room!

      694
      posts
    10. 2,635
      posts
  6. Videos

    1. General

      All videos are will be reviewed before being published on WCF.

      3,427
      posts
    2. Comedy

      All videos are will be reviewed before being published on WCF.

      973
      posts
    3. Biblical Topics

      All videos are will be reviewed before being published on WCF.

      2,715
      posts
    4. Christian Music

      All videos are will be reviewed before being published on WCF.

      3,337
      posts
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      74,965
    • Most Online
      2,935

    Newest Member
    dantastic93
    Joined
  • Join our Christian Community

    Join our Community

  • Latest Posts

    • At this point in time, this question is moot. There is now one Body -- all redeemed Jews and Gentiles -- and there is no distinction whatsoever.  All are now considered "the children of Abraham" through faith. Those who maintain or create distinctions are in violation of Scripture.
    • Because it conveys a bit of information which is important.  It is part of the protection afforded the "woman" which figuratively is Israel in chapter 12's dual parallel accounts, and she represents the Remnant Jews God says actually survive the wholesale (ALL) death and destruction which awaits man in the end-times. Context-context-context. In the book of Revelation, we have parallel accounts.  Many divide the book because it cannot be read like a novel from end to end as one account.  So what I do is not new.  What I do, which is different, is to look for a change of both scene and focus to differentiate different, parallel accounts. The break from the Seal/Scroll chronology of Rev 4-11 (exclusive of 11:1-13) to chapter 12 takes us from a scene at the end of the one 'seven' after everything is over, and we go "back" to the time of the birth of Christ on earth.  Likewise, we go from focusing on unsealing and what happens afterward with the Scroll, which I think contains the desolations God has decreed from long ago as told in Daniel 9:26.  The twin aspect of Revelation 12 is that we then go back to the time of Christ in 12:7 - which I think is the aftermath of the Father's role of Judge in admonishing -twice- Satan in his role as prosecutor in Zechariah 3:1-8.  I think there is simply no place for Satan in Heaven with the Risen Lord.  The two cannot coexist in one place together; they are in complete opposition and the later has been twice-over rebuked.  While everyone predominately puts Satan's fall in 12:7 very close time-wise to the "end," I would note that for an immortal being, 2,000 years, is but a couple of days.  AND I would note that the active persecution of the Jews began soon afterward even by our time frame and has continued for all of these 2,000 years. Now going back to parallel accounts, the period of one-half of the one 'seven' found in Rev 12:14 is the same period of protection found in Rev 12:6.  Both accounts, the first focusing on Israel, and the second focusing on the dragon Satan - end up being the same.  They are set in parallel.  Furthermore, by putting together a sequence-of-events (a thread I am locked out of, but still available for reading) I determined this half of the one 'seven' relates to the second half. So getting to context ~ when we start chapter 13, the half here is found in 13:5 is set BEFORE the midpoint abomination revealed as the talking image of the beast of a man - the anti-Christ.  This time shift manifests a change of scene.  Likewise, the focus shifts from the dragon Satan, to the beast-of-a-nation and the beast-of-a-man.  The dragon of Rev 16:13 is not the same dragon as Satan, unless you want to say that Satan himself can be possessed by a still greater, more evil spirit.  No, I think the dragon of Rev 16:13 relates to the fourth terrible beast-of-a-nation first shown in 13:2 and later in the explanatory chapter of Rev 17 with the Harlot. This is a long-winded explanation to say that I view Revelation 13-16 as one narrative: the detailed parallel account to the broad overview of the full range of the end-times presented with the Seal/Scroll chronology.  Rev 13-16 details the Rise and Fall of the anti-Christ in the one 'seven'.  God is the best story-teller after all. _______________________________________________________ Now with that said, Revelation 13 chronicles the first half of the one 'seven' leading up to the midpoint abomination: the talking image.
      In addition, we see WHY the Great Tribulation, which Jesus told us happens right after that in the Olivet Discourse of Mt 24:15-31, is so terrible for the Elect. WHEN we move to chapter 14, what we are seeing here is God's Response.  Absent is any mention of God's First Responders: the Two Witnesses.  That was already covered in the "Sidebar Account" of Rev 11:1-13.  However!  We DO see a replication of two aspects of the sixth Seal from the broad overview of the Seal/Scroll chronology: the 144,000 AND the Harvest which results in the Great Multitude of Rev 7:9-17. Additional information is provided by the revelation of three Angels.  The FIRST Angel completes the condition Jesus gave in the opening broad overview of the end in the Olivet Discourse of Mt 24:4-14 ~ The gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.   And I think that "end" He is referring to relates to the end of the Church Age: the ability for the selection of souls based upon their faith in Him.  The THIRD Angel tells the world what will become of them who worship the beast or took his mark.  This bit of information in Rev 14:6-11 gives the reason WHY the "kings of the earth" etc, etc, KNEW Jesus was coming for them so as to compel them to save their own skin by hiding deep underground in Rev 6:15-17. AFTER the three Angels proceed- then we get to the Harvest, which again, I think is the end of the Church Age. Now, some might beg difference that chapter 14 is not consecutive with 13 based on scene and focus.  However, in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus goes from the midpoint abomination to the shortened Great Tribulation to the gathering of the Elect as one narrative.  Likewise, when viewed within the context of the one 'seven' a sequence-of-events approach in analysis provides, I see a differentiation of action whereby chapters 14-16 chronicle the FALL of the anti-Christ.  So there are two different halves of the one 'seven' with two different outcomes. __________________________________________________________ Now that I have laid a basis for my context, and it's not easy, but then neither is the book of Revelation: here is my answer: . When we move past the Harvest, God's Wrath starts immediately with a second Angel appearing with a sickle.
      This is part of the Wrath of God which ALSO occurs ON the Day of the Lord.
      This Wrath is perfectly aligned with the first Trumpet in the Seal/Scroll account in that is deals out fire and blood.
      These are two of the three elements of the Day of the Lord's Wrath found in the OT.  (Smoke is the third.) In chapter 15, we see a quick advancement to the last of God's Wrath: the Bowl or Vial Judgments.
      The preceding Trumpets are omitted; that information has already been provided.  
      We can "fit" the second through sixth Trumpet in and now we can see what the Third Woe might have been as announced by a mighty Angel and the seventh Trumpet: The seven Bowls or Vials. In this whole time - which is part of the second half of the one 'seven' - the woman Israel is protected.
      Remember her?  From chapter 12, we know she is protected.
      Jesus also implored those in Judea to flee at the midpoint abomination; they would be the initial cadre of the Remnant.
      In Zechariah 14:5, a second contingent of Jews escape Jerusalem when Jesus touches down on the Mount of Olives.; this would be an addition to the initial cadre.
      These refugees are hidden by God as indicated in Isaiah 42:16 I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,
          along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;
        I will turn the darkness into light before them
          and make the rough places smooth.
        These are the things I will do;
          I will not forsake them. It is in this light that I look to Rev 16:15. Now "coming like a thief" is not specific, nor unique.  It is descriptive.  Jesus comes like a thief on the Day of the Lord.  He "steals" the most valuable thing in all the world right out from under the thumb of Satan and the ant-Christ: US, the Elect.  The ones they are trying to eradicate, and would have (or will have?) had not God the Father intervened in setting this Day so that the Bridegroom no longer "tarries." Jesus comes like a thief on the Day of the Lord's Wrath.  His Army climbs over walls and through windows, which is also what a thief does. Jesus also comes like a thief to the Remnant Jews that God protects through the second half of the one 'seven' in Rev 12:6, 14, and 16:15 - He comes unexpectedly. They are "blind" because they do not yet "see" Jesus as Christ.  Had they, they would have been rescued with the Harvest.  Still, God knows their heart and He will not forsake them because of it.  So they must "make it" for 1335 days to His Millennium Reign and so have the veil of Moses lifted from their eyes and then Zechariah 12:10 will be accomplished!  (...so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him...) NOTICE: those who are not clothed - are not kicked out of the wedding ceremony nor are they locked out of the house!
      They continue WITH everyone else, and only suffer the shame of being seen naked.
      This is not like what happens to the tares of the field who are left behind when the Harvest comes to suffer destruction. ______________________________________________ The great day of God is language John uses which can be interpreted as the Day of the Lord.
      After all, that Day is great to us, and Jesus is fully God.
      However, the triumphant conclusion of the one 'seven' is not called the "Day of the Lord" by John.
      He makes this distinction. 
      IF it were the same - I think he would have called it so, but he doesn't. There are TWO battles which are said to happen ON the Day of the Lord.
      The first in Jerusalem, and the second in the Valley of Decision.
      Scholars peg this second location to Jehoshaphat to a area around Jerusalem. Armageddon, or better, Har Megiddo is a broad plain in the hill country of Ephraim around the mountain (Har) Megiddo.
      It is an important battlefield from the time of ancient Israel and where they scored significant victories over the nations. It is THIS area which is the site of the final battle of the one 'seven' which concludes all war as per Daniel 9:26.
      This final battle, which Jesus and His Army prepare to go out to do battle from Heaven with the sound of the cheering from a Great Multitude - is a fixture of the Epilogue of Revelation in chapter 19, beginning the final parallel account of that book. The Day of the Lord is fought around Jerusalem and Bethlehem.
      The great day of God is fought at Armageddon.
      The two are not named the same, nor are their battle fought in the same area. ______________________________________________ Thus, Rev 16:15 does not concern the Elect, nor is it indicative of the Harvest which was previously accomplished BEFORE God's Wrath goes forward. In a Pre-Wrath model, Rev 16:15 concerns the Remnant Jews God marshals through the utter destruction upon the earth which occurs in the second half of the one 'seven.' I'm sorry for the long-winded answer, but your question was sincere, and it deserves a full answer. Thank-you for your time in reading all this.
    • About missing things....  at my age, how about no air conditioning and indoor toilets.  Indoor running water.  Drawing water out of a well in 20 degree weather... oh yeah one could miss that forever LoL. 
    • A million parks,,,,,with slides & pools,sounds reasonable!!!! Great idea!
    • Yes,I agree with what Oakwood has added!
  • Blog Entries

  • Recent Status Updates

  • Popular Contributors