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Evil Spirits are??


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#1
L10

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L10

I know I have missed a bit of the discussion, but where did all the shapeshifting discussion come in?


At the risk of getting said discussion cranked up again, I believe it came from too many TV programs and not enough scripture

Why do I think that? The main reason would be that scripture does not ever describe what they look like let alone an ability
to...ahem...cough...gag...shapeshift

However, those who confirm this opinion will no doubt staunchly defend it. :guns:

Well there is pretty clear argument that satan is even able to create to a degree, not to create actual life, but create incredible disgusting things. Look for example at the snakes that Pharoh was able to have thrown down from staffs. He is simply a counterfeiter, a wannabe, and yet He has a very seemingly human attention. One could say that He is very much of the ways of the world, and He knows how to catch the fancy of nearly anyone that seeks this. I believe that satan and his legions have witnessed mans traits and ways for a great many years, and He knows how to mimick, deceive, and even send a spirit that we have invited, to our actual being. Will it Possess? I do not believe, but I do believe the ramifications can be horrible without taking the full armor, fully repent, and continue to be aware. Scripture is clear that once He has been rebuked or removed, he waits for the house (body) to be swept clean and prepared for even more of his lower demons, and many of them. Don't play around friends, it is out there, and they are out there. Watch Joel Osteen all you want, and believe that every happy feeling is of God, but Satan will, and does try to pretend to be God. Test the spirits, and the Bible tells you how.
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#2
OneLight

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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.
Joel has more of a Unilateralist overview of salvation. While he does say that the only way to God is through His Son, he also says that atheist will make it to heaven. It seems like Joel is afraid of saying what scripture says while saying scripture is true. His message is always looking at the positive and neglecting the negative. It is as if he refuses to show people that sin is sin and that there are groups of people who will not make it to heaven. IS his message a false one? No, not always, but only a half one at best. One cannot have good without bad, right without wrong, yes without no in this life.
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aah yes, beloved Joel.
drink it in, noooo sin. it always goes down smooooth.. :laughing:

if a no repentance prayer to accept Jesus Christ in your heart at the end of every sermon can be considered milk, then what's formula nowadays? :runforhills:
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#4
OneLight

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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.

Onelight:

Joel has more of a Unilateralist overview of salvation. While he does say that the only way to God is through His Son, he also says that atheist will make it to heaven. It seems like Joel is afraid of saying what scripture says while saying scripture is true.


He is not a unilateralist. He just won't put anyone in hell, and he spends most his time on all the good things God wants to do for you. He has spoken against gay sins and other things. He won't tell you they are going to hell though, because he says he is not the judge. I suppose some folks will be in heaven that will even surprise us.

Joel preaches truth, He will not put anyone in Hell though. I suppose on the outside we should not judge anyone either. There is nothing negative about scripture, but I don't think you meant it that way. The Bible also talks about sins, and things that keep you out of God's best, and Joel seems to preach just God's best, not addressing the what happens if you don't do as your suppose to do.

Joel is great for someone just coming to God, someone that lived a life of sin and wants loved. It's the Love of God that draws people.

Luk_7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

People do need to hear about the goodness of God, we preach it in our own churches. I guess Joel is always there in the time he has every week to hear how good God is, and how God wants you to make it if you need it.

I don't listen to Joel, but I like what he does. He does not preach error, but my thinking is that there would be time after growing up a little in His Church to move on to a different one. Paul talked about moving on to meat, and not always drinking the Milk. Let someone else that needs it fill your empty seat as you continue to grow and mature.

Jesus Is Lord.

You are correct in that I used the positive of scripture to relate to all that is good and the negative of scripture to relate to sin, not that scripture is negative in any way.

Joel does not judge, according to his own testimony, but he does not warn others about the accountability of sin by neglecting to preach against it. He said that atheist will be in heaven. That is impossible because one you give your live to Jesus, you are no linger an atheist. He tip-toes around the truth so he does not stand against anyone, which he also admits that he does not want to appear against anyone. How can one be for Christ and not against the sin people live in? I wonder how much love is in his words when he refuses to warn people that they are dying?
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#5
MorningGlory

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The first time I ever listened to Osteen preach I knew he was a cardboard cutout and not to be taken seriously. There is NO halfway, gonna slide around the Truth, do- as- I -please- and- God -will- accept- me, path to Heaven. His 'church' is a delusion and a snare for believers.
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The first time I ever listened to Osteen preach I knew he was a cardboard cutout and not to be taken seriously. There is NO halfway, gonna slide around the Truth, do- as- I -please- and- God -will- accept- me, path to Heaven. His 'church' is a delusion and a snare for believers.

The absence of God's Word as authority but some smarmey rhetoric and feely good philosophy ... I side with you MG :thumbsup: Love, Steven
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OneLight

I wonder how much love is in his words when he refuses to warn people that they are dying?


I can't really speak for Joel. He had done a wonderful Job and has helped millions come to the Love and Knowledge of God. He really draws people closer to the Lord. He has a limited amount of time to get the same message out every week, He is bigger then what he ever thought, and if he was wrong in the eyes of God, He would correct it.

No ministry can preach falsely and stick around for years. God does not allow that, and I can prove that by many scriptures. If God is blessing them, the grow and get stronger.

We don't know what God has done or not done in this case, do we? How many times did Jesus preach about entering the kingdom and pointing out how to get there? We are to continue His message, not deter from it with the tickling of ears so not to offend anyone.

To be honest, if we are not taking fire from the enemy, we are not on the front lines. The front lines is where the rubber meets the road, not the vista overview of a vacation pamphlet.
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#8
OneLight

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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.
This thread needs to get off of one preacher and back on topic.
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#9
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L10

I know I have missed a bit of the discussion, but where did all the shapeshifting discussion come in?


At the risk of getting said discussion cranked up again, I believe it came from too many TV programs and not enough scripture

Why do I think that? The main reason would be that scripture does not ever describe what they look like let alone an ability
to...ahem...cough...gag...shapeshift

However, those who confirm this opinion will no doubt staunchly defend it. :guns:

staunchly ... is that Texan for stinks :)
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#10
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Good idea, what are evil Spirits? Are they all in chains?
Are some oppressing Christians? Do they have an interest in keeping the unsaved saved? Can they keep the unsaved from being saved if God decrees for them to be saved?

Have they studied humans for a great many years?

Lastly, most difficult~ Are the fallen angels for certain? Or are they part of the Giant population issue.. you know what I mean????
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#11
OneLight

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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.
Out of curiosity, what to you take from this passage about the fallen angels?

Jude 1:5-7

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
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#12
Sevenseas

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You should never hear anything from God that does not leave you with Joy or answers. Satan can't mimic this, He is a liar and there is no truth in him. Anything he says, or comes out of his mouth is not true. We are not wary of his devices, and should be able to right away detect this.


One reason so many are deceived is because the devil can and does mimic feelings. Actualy Mike, the devil is very well adapt
at using the truth. He stuffs a lie in the middle of it. People chew on it that type of thing all the time.

Joel Osteen preaches that God is Good, God is going to bring you out, God is going to bring you up. That is scripture, we are more than conquerors because he loves us. More than, means more than enough victory there and then some over every thing. Joel is not preaching bad, he just preaches the same thing with a different angle every time. If we need to hear something else, then we need to listen to other things. It's good though to hear that God loves you, and everything is going to be OK. I need that sometimes.


Why do people feeling so good need to even know about victory? It's all good, right? Gospel light...with artificial sweetener

What we need to hear is all the truth all the time. Mr. Smiley has denied what the word actually states more than once to often.


He is not a unilateralist. He just won't put anyone in hell, and he spends most his time on all the good things God wants to do for you. He has spoken against gay sins and other things. He won't tell you they are going to hell though, because he says he is not the judge. I suppose some folks will be in heaven that will even surprise us.

Joel preaches truth, He will not put anyone in Hell though. I suppose on the outside we should not judge anyone either. There is nothing negative about scripture, but I don't think you meant it that way. The Bible also talks about sins, and things that keep you out of God's best, and Joel seems to preach just God's best, not addressing the what happens if you don't do as your suppose to do.


No worries. You are right...Joel will not be putting anyone in hell...however, he is not keeping them out either. Mike, how do you go from Joel to Copeland and everything in between? I'll give you A+ for enthusiasm, but -C for some of the things you seem to agree with including the gods thing and the no Trinity thing.


Anyway, remarkably off topic
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#13
enoob57

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You should never hear anything from God that does not leave you with Joy or answers. Satan can't mimic this, He is a liar and there is no truth in him. Anything he says, or comes out of his mouth is not true. We are not wary of his devices, and should be able to right away detect this.


One reason so many are deceived is because the devil can and does mimic feelings. Actualy Mike, the devil is very well adapt
at using the truth. He stuffs a lie in the middle of it. People chew on it that type of thing all the time.

Joel Osteen preaches that God is Good, God is going to bring you out, God is going to bring you up. That is scripture, we are more than conquerors because he loves us. More than, means more than enough victory there and then some over every thing. Joel is not preaching bad, he just preaches the same thing with a different angle every time. If we need to hear something else, then we need to listen to other things. It's good though to hear that God loves you, and everything is going to be OK. I need that sometimes.


Why do people feeling so good need to even know about victory? It's all good, right? Gospel light...with artificial sweetener

What we need to hear is all the truth all the time. Mr. Smiley has denied what the word actually states more than once to often.


He is not a unilateralist. He just won't put anyone in hell, and he spends most his time on all the good things God wants to do for you. He has spoken against gay sins and other things. He won't tell you they are going to hell though, because he says he is not the judge. I suppose some folks will be in heaven that will even surprise us.

Joel preaches truth, He will not put anyone in Hell though. I suppose on the outside we should not judge anyone either. There is nothing negative about scripture, but I don't think you meant it that way. The Bible also talks about sins, and things that keep you out of God's best, and Joel seems to preach just God's best, not addressing the what happens if you don't do as your suppose to do.


No worries. You are right...Joel will not be putting anyone in hell...however, he is not keeping them out either. Mike, how do you go from Joel to Copeland and everything in between? I'll give you A+ for enthusiasm, but -C for some of the things you seem to agree with including the gods thing and the no Trinity thing.

Anyway, remarkably off topic Posted Image

I'm so thankful for the off topic dude you gave out! :)
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#14
Sevenseas

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I'm so thankful for the off topic dude you gave out! :)



Actually, man was the inspiration behind a whole new bunch of smiley possibilties...I now have a smiley folder from which to choose...bet
you would access to more smileys since you have that creativity bug too!

Posted Image..it's that little bit of humor thing, eh?
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#15
enoob57

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I'm so thankful for the off topic dude you gave out! :)



Actually, man was the inspiration behind a whole new bunch of smiley possibilties...I now have a smiley folder from which to choose...bet
you would access to more smileys since you have that creativity bug too! Posted Image

Posted Image..it's that little bit of humor thing, eh?


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#16
enoob57

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The Holy Spirit can't be God because he does not speak of his own, had he been God he would. No, he speaks what he hears.
When we remove all the contradictory scriptures out of the KJV, then I might listen as I study out of the KJV. you have no foundation!

Jn 16:13-15
13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority,

but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine
and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
NKJV

The Lord Jesus came to serve and do the will of His Father yet He 'IS' God... The Holy Spirit came to serve the will of Christ
and Speak the Words of Christ yet he 'IS' God... The Father is Holy and Spirit and He 'IS' God! Anything outside of this is
blasphemy against the Word of God... Love, Steven
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#17
Sevenseas

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Sevenseas:

The devil is very good at moving feelings, but normally not happy ones. The dark cloud days, then something is off days. I don't buy into his stuff, as wrapped in truth or no matter how real it looks, there is still no truth in him, and the truth will actually mostly appeal to your flesh which we should all be aware of.

I disagree. Very much so in fact. Deception would not be so rampant if the devil was bad at what he does and emotions play a VERY strong part in
deception. In fact, I have pretty much ceased going by how I feel....knowing is another thing altogether. Do I have feelings? All kinds.
You may not buy into the truth with a lie, but it is actually in the Bible.

The first instance occurs in the Garden when the serpent tempts Eve with "Hey man, are you sure God actually said that? Didn't He really say
this? A little truth, distorted to shove a lie in. Check out the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness...Did the devil lie to Him? Of course not...
everything He said was the truth...the devil SPOKE scripture...which he often does by the way to those of a religious nature or Christians who
are not aware of his schemes...the devil did not lie to Jesus in what he said...the lie was in the motive....

I'll give you A+ for enthusiasm, but -C for some of the things you seem to agree with including the gods thing and the no Trinity thing.


I don't buy into the trinity thing because Jesus is not a picture, egg white, or part of some machine that makes up a god. He is the Son of God, and God on his own. He has a father that sits right next to him. The Holy Spirit can't be God because he does not speak of his own, had he been God he would. No, he speaks what he hears.
When we remove all the contradictory scriptures out of the KJV, then I might listen as I study out of the KJV.

What on earth Mike? Do you think I thought I was serving up a god to my husband this am when I made him an omelet (with cheese...pretty good stuff)?

I mean how is someone supposed to answer this? It is so far out in left field that people hurt their necks watching it fly by...ok, well there is my 'first response'
so, now I'll calm down LOL!

Jesus just happened to say that He only said what the Father told Him to say and He only did what the Father told Him to do, (see verses below)so,
if I apply to this, what you applied to the Holy Spirit re not speaking from Himself, I would have to conclude that Jesus was not begotten, but rather
just another creature and the virgin birth is a myth since Jesus apparently had no clue unless He first asked the Father (note: no disrespect for God here,
only trying to illustrate the problem with trying apply one understanding to another using the same criteria...hope you followed...)


49 For I do not speak of myself, but from the Father who sent me and commanded me what I should say and what I should speak.
50 And I know that [to obey] his command is life everlasting. Therefore,whatever I speak is just as the Father tells me to speak." John 12: 49-50

So, Jesus only speaks what He hears and only does what He is told to do. Sounds like the Holy Spirit to me. Sounds like all three
are in total agreement. In fact, Jesus only came to earth in the first place BECAUSE He was obedient.

19 Then Jesus answered them and said,"Truly, truly, I say to you; the Son can do nothing of himself [by his own will], but only does what he sees the Father do. For whatever things he [the Father] does, these are also likewise done by the Son John 5:19

(You don't take 5 scriptures and ignore 20) You are right. I don't.

I go to everything in between because of discussions like this. I already heard everything from some different camps about devils. I find it hard to believe that any one camp knows everything.

I agree that one 'camp' knows everything. And if everyone would stop thinking they are the only one who is right, and we all compared notes, we
might have a better understanding. However, I might know more than the average person. I can assure you that is not bragging...I graduated
out of a very tough school and continue to learn. Deception is very close to home and most often in your home.

There is a whole Lot I agree with here about devils and evil spirits.

Jesus Is Lord.



At any rate, best to get back to the devils although this has become a revival and perhaps a revisionist thread
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#18
enoob57

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Steven:

The Lord Jesus came to serve and do the will of His Father yet He 'IS' God... The Holy Spirit came to serve the will of Christ
and Speak the Words of Christ yet he 'IS' God... The Father is Holy and Spirit and He 'IS' God! Anything outside of this is
blasphemy against the Word of God... Love, Steven



This is about Devils brother{this is jehovah witness doctrine of lies], don't want to do the Trinity debate again. Jesus is God{then He can't be the devils brother], He is not God his father though. this statement is not justified by Scripture
Jn 14:9-11
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
NKJV

He is not part of some piece of a god. He is fully God on his own, and in full agreement with his father. God the Father certainly is not schizophrenic, talking to himself, so we have a mediator, which is His son, our Lord.You are using mans wisdom to discern God's Word...You have to use The Word to understand the Word... as none of us were experientially in the eternal councils of past therefore all must come into faith based reality...

You feel that it's Blasphemy against the Word, I fully understand Brother. God is a Spirit, His Spirit is Holy, makes sense. I don't find any fault in that thinking. It's the way I read the word though. I don't try to spiritual it up, I just read it as it were simple. I don't add to it, or take away from it.
Every single scripture though, God has always taken ownership of the Holy Spirit or His spirit. He never once said it was him, never called the Holy Spirit God. Even the Holy Spirit that gave the Word never called himself a god. With God there is no ownership... it is Unity, Oneness, Sameness, Equality of Being... it is Holy and Pure and the Greatest is the least and the least is the greatest... NOW! God has Spoken His Word and we are to receive it just as it is spoken- in context, grammatical formation, historical presence-> truths formed in this hermeneutic ( as all men can place the diligence of work to arrive at ) as truths gleaned from original intent that can be brought forward without perversion and live out in our lives with the concept of God's blessing of His Word upon them! The concepts of man cannot arrive at the Who of God but God The Holy Spirit can form them in us with the waiting upon Him as His Good Pleasure in doing so!

Jesus said I'll send you a comforter. He did not say I will send you God. The Holy Spirit is a whole different entity that is thinking and Working in line with the owner. He is not God his Father. The scripture say God has seven Spirits, but just a quick study it appears that they are all different attributes provided by One Spirit.

Scripture proof The Holy Spirit 'IS' God in Fulness, Equity, By Being:



'IS' Jehovah. Ex 17:7 in conjunction with Heb 3:7-9; Nu 12:6 in conjunction with 2 Pe 1:21.
…………….. of Hosts. Isa 6:3,8-10 in conjunction with Ac 28:25.
……………...Most High. Ps 78:17,21 in conjunction with Ac 7:51.
……………...called upon as Jehovah. Lk 2:26-29; Ac 4:23-25 in conjunction with Ac 1:16,20; 2 Th 3:5.
Referenced as God. Ac 5:3-4.
Having essence of god:
eternal. Heb 9:14.
Everywhere present. Ps 139:7-13.
Knowing all things. 1 Co 2:10.
Unlimited power. Lk 1:35; Ro 15:19.
God's Spirit and Glory. 1 Pe 4:14.
Creator. Ge 1:26-27 in conjunction with Job 33:4.
Sameness with Father. Mt 28:19; 2 Co 13:14.
Giver of new birth. Jn 3:5-6 in conjunction with 1 Jn 5:4.
Raised Christ from death. Ac 2:24 in conjunction with 1 Pe 3:18; Heb 13:20 in conjuction with Ro 1:4.
Brought about Scripture. 2 Ti 3:16 in conjunction with 2 Pe 1:21.
Appoints and sends ministers. Ac 13:2,4 in conjunction with Mt 9:38; Ac 20:28.
Gospel delivered where. Ac 16:6-7,10.
Is in saints. Jn 14:17 in conjunction with 1 Co 14:25; 1 Co 3:16 in conjunction with 1 Co 6:19.
Comforter of the Bride. Ac 9:31 in conjunction with 2 Co 1:3.
Sanctifying the Church. Eze 37:28 in conjunction with Ro 15:16.
'IS' The Witness. Heb 10:15 in conjunction with 1 Jn 5:9.

As for God taking ownership of the Holy Spirit I could argue that all the times God said my Spirit, would be no different than saying by my right hand. We could say that also, making it God's actual Spirit. Then again we have some tough scriptures to wade though to make that all fit. We can't have one scripture out of place.

I will say this, nobody that believes God is a goo mix of 3 different beings can explain it. If there is only one God, then Jesus is 1/3 of a god. Simple math. They can't explain the many counter scriptures and normally show you some picture in attempts to explain something they don't even understand. I will have enough sense to say I don't fully know about the Holy Spirit. I can't see how it all works yet, but someday I will.

Thank you for Sharing Steven, It's not that you or I don't care, or study, it's the way we see and what has been revealed.

The Trinity Doctrine is very problematic even for those that do believe it, there are questions about where it actually came from and so many counter scriptures to deal with. One article about it, the Author said it best, it's what we choose to believe. That's honest, and I accept that.
The Scripture was not written for us to have options outside of It's Own Authority BUT 'IS' our authority and all that is
written in the hermeneutic substance 'IS', 'WAS' and 'WILL BE' fulfilled to the very jot and tittle of It's Writ... there will be few
surprises for those who labor in It's vineyard of life in The Word...


Jesus Is Lord.

This doesn't require a reply but was written for your considerations... Love, Steven

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#19
Sevenseas

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Not to be a party blooper, this:

I will say this, nobody that believes God is a goo mix of 3 different beings can explain it. If there is only one God, then Jesus is 1/3 of a god. Simple math. They can't explain the many counter scriptures and normally show you some picture in attempts to explain something they don't even understand. I will have enough sense to say I don't fully know about the Holy Spirit. I can't see how it all works yet, but someday I will.



is like nothing of any understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity I have ever heard/read/studied

I think what you are calling counter scriptures may be so to you but not to others. That being said, I do not know what counter scriptures
you are thinking of but as I do not know any myself, I am guessing you hold some to be so that I might not agree as such

I have never thought of Jesus as 1/3 of God....anyway........back to your questions.......and I have some for consideration but let's tackle
your offering first

1) Are evil spirits acting like Human Ghost?
2) do they physically manifest, has anyone seen one, or had one touch them?
3) Do evil spirits possess inanimate objects? Like a owl statue, or a doll.
4) What roll do they play in the unsaved, and the saved. Are the rolls different, or are they the same.
5) Can evil spirits radiate cold, or some other strong sense or feelings?
6) Can they be cast out of our house, our life?


1. Could you unbefuddle this one for me please

2. ok, as I am reading yr questions, they sound more like a personal opinion poll and possible experience 'do tell' than a scriptural analysis withthe exception of 4

I have not gone back into this thread (which explains my lack of a headache at the present) but I remember than you and I disagreed more often than not...
is that a fair statement?

Let's not discuss the Godhead further...I saw there is actually a thread about that topic anyway

ps...I realize yr questions are not directed just to yours truly but are open to all
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#20
OneLight

OneLight

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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.

Now Back to evil spirits! what does anyone think of these questions?

1) Are evil spirits acting like Human Ghost?

There are no such things as human ghosts. Whatever people claim to see are not the deceased. Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment"

2) do they physically manifest, has anyone seen one, or had one touch them?

My spirit gave witness to evil spirits as His spirit revealed them to me, but I have never been touched by one or seen one physically manifest them self.

3) Do evil spirits possess inanimate objects? Like a owl statue, or a doll.

I don't believe so. I never read once about Jesus casting demons out of any inanimate object, to even confront one.

4) What roll do they play in the unsaved, and the saved. Are the rolls different, or are they the same.

The roll they play is to turn them from God. How they do it differs.

5) Can evil spirits radiate cold, or some other strong sense or feelings?

I have heard stories of this, but I have my doubts. Our personal raising and lowering of blood pressure and heart rate will cause us to be warm or cold.

6) Can they be cast out of our house, our life?

They can be cast out of those people they possess, the unsaved, but setting limits as to where they can go, nope. I am sure they follow some people right into church.
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