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Evil Spirits are??

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L10

I know I have missed a bit of the discussion, but where did all the shapeshifting discussion come in?

At the risk of getting said discussion cranked up again, I believe it came from too many TV programs and not enough scripture

Why do I think that? The main reason would be that scripture does not ever describe what they look like let alone an ability

to...ahem...cough...gag...shapeshift

However, those who confirm this opinion will no doubt staunchly defend it. :guns:

Well there is pretty clear argument that satan is even able to create to a degree, not to create actual life, but create incredible disgusting things. Look for example at the snakes that Pharoh was able to have thrown down from staffs. He is simply a counterfeiter, a wannabe, and yet He has a very seemingly human attention. One could say that He is very much of the ways of the world, and He knows how to catch the fancy of nearly anyone that seeks this. I believe that satan and his legions have witnessed mans traits and ways for a great many years, and He knows how to mimick, deceive, and even send a spirit that we have invited, to our actual being. Will it Possess? I do not believe, but I do believe the ramifications can be horrible without taking the full armor, fully repent, and continue to be aware. Scripture is clear that once He has been rebuked or removed, he waits for the house (body) to be swept clean and prepared for even more of his lower demons, and many of them. Don't play around friends, it is out there, and they are out there. Watch Joel Osteen all you want, and believe that every happy feeling is of God, but Satan will, and does try to pretend to be God. Test the spirits, and the Bible tells you how.
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Joel has more of a Unilateralist overview of salvation. While he does say that the only way to God is through His Son, he also says that atheist will make it to heaven. It seems like Joel is afraid of saying what scripture says while saying scripture is true. His message is always looking at the positive and neglecting the negative. It is as if he refuses to show people that sin is sin and that there are groups of people who will not make it to heaven. IS his message a false one? No, not always, but only a half one at best. One cannot have good without bad, right without wrong, yes without no in this life.

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aah yes, beloved Joel.

drink it in, noooo sin. it always goes down smooooth.. :laughing:

if a no repentance prayer to accept Jesus Christ in your heart at the end of every sermon can be considered milk, then what's formula nowadays? :runforhills:

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Onelight:

Joel has more of a Unilateralist overview of salvation. While he does say that the only way to God is through His Son, he also says that atheist will make it to heaven. It seems like Joel is afraid of saying what scripture says while saying scripture is true.

He is not a unilateralist. He just won't put anyone in hell, and he spends most his time on all the good things God wants to do for you. He has spoken against gay sins and other things. He won't tell you they are going to hell though, because he says he is not the judge. I suppose some folks will be in heaven that will even surprise us.

Joel preaches truth, He will not put anyone in Hell though. I suppose on the outside we should not judge anyone either. There is nothing negative about scripture, but I don't think you meant it that way. The Bible also talks about sins, and things that keep you out of God's best, and Joel seems to preach just God's best, not addressing the what happens if you don't do as your suppose to do.

Joel is great for someone just coming to God, someone that lived a life of sin and wants loved. It's the Love of God that draws people.

Luk_7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

People do need to hear about the goodness of God, we preach it in our own churches. I guess Joel is always there in the time he has every week to hear how good God is, and how God wants you to make it if you need it.

I don't listen to Joel, but I like what he does. He does not preach error, but my thinking is that there would be time after growing up a little in His Church to move on to a different one. Paul talked about moving on to meat, and not always drinking the Milk. Let someone else that needs it fill your empty seat as you continue to grow and mature.

Jesus Is Lord.

You are correct in that I used the positive of scripture to relate to all that is good and the negative of scripture to relate to sin, not that scripture is negative in any way.

Joel does not judge, according to his own testimony, but he does not warn others about the accountability of sin by neglecting to preach against it. He said that atheist will be in heaven. That is impossible because one you give your live to Jesus, you are no linger an atheist. He tip-toes around the truth so he does not stand against anyone, which he also admits that he does not want to appear against anyone. How can one be for Christ and not against the sin people live in? I wonder how much love is in his words when he refuses to warn people that they are dying?

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The first time I ever listened to Osteen preach I knew he was a cardboard cutout and not to be taken seriously. There is NO halfway, gonna slide around the Truth, do- as- I -please- and- God -will- accept- me, path to Heaven. His 'church' is a delusion and a snare for believers.

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The first time I ever listened to Osteen preach I knew he was a cardboard cutout and not to be taken seriously. There is NO halfway, gonna slide around the Truth, do- as- I -please- and- God -will- accept- me, path to Heaven. His 'church' is a delusion and a snare for believers.

The absence of God's Word as authority but some smarmey rhetoric and feely good philosophy ... I side with you MG :thumbsup: Love, Steven
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OneLight

I wonder how much love is in his words when he refuses to warn people that they are dying?

I can't really speak for Joel. He had done a wonderful Job and has helped millions come to the Love and Knowledge of God. He really draws people closer to the Lord. He has a limited amount of time to get the same message out every week, He is bigger then what he ever thought, and if he was wrong in the eyes of God, He would correct it.

No ministry can preach falsely and stick around for years. God does not allow that, and I can prove that by many scriptures. If God is blessing them, the grow and get stronger.

We don't know what God has done or not done in this case, do we? How many times did Jesus preach about entering the kingdom and pointing out how to get there? We are to continue His message, not deter from it with the tickling of ears so not to offend anyone.

To be honest, if we are not taking fire from the enemy, we are not on the front lines. The front lines is where the rubber meets the road, not the vista overview of a vacation pamphlet.

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This thread needs to get off of one preacher and back on topic.

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L10

I know I have missed a bit of the discussion, but where did all the shapeshifting discussion come in?

At the risk of getting said discussion cranked up again, I believe it came from too many TV programs and not enough scripture

Why do I think that? The main reason would be that scripture does not ever describe what they look like let alone an ability

to...ahem...cough...gag...shapeshift

However, those who confirm this opinion will no doubt staunchly defend it. :guns:

staunchly ... is that Texan for stinks :)
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Good idea, what are evil Spirits? Are they all in chains?

Are some oppressing Christians? Do they have an interest in keeping the unsaved saved? Can they keep the unsaved from being saved if God decrees for them to be saved?

Have they studied humans for a great many years?

Lastly, most difficult~ Are the fallen angels for certain? Or are they part of the Giant population issue.. you know what I mean????

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Out of curiosity, what to you take from this passage about the fallen angels?

Jude 1:5-7

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

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You should never hear anything from God that does not leave you with Joy or answers. Satan can't mimic this, He is a liar and there is no truth in him. Anything he says, or comes out of his mouth is not true. We are not wary of his devices, and should be able to right away detect this.

One reason so many are deceived is because the devil can and does mimic feelings. Actualy Mike, the devil is very well adapt

at using the truth. He stuffs a lie in the middle of it. People chew on it that type of thing all the time.

Joel Osteen preaches that God is Good, God is going to bring you out, God is going to bring you up. That is scripture, we are more than conquerors because he loves us. More than, means more than enough victory there and then some over every thing. Joel is not preaching bad, he just preaches the same thing with a different angle every time. If we need to hear something else, then we need to listen to other things. It's good though to hear that God loves you, and everything is going to be OK. I need that sometimes.

Why do people feeling so good need to even know about victory? It's all good, right? Gospel light...with artificial sweetener

What we need to hear is all the truth all the time. Mr. Smiley has denied what the word actually states more than once to often.

He is not a unilateralist. He just won't put anyone in hell, and he spends most his time on all the good things God wants to do for you. He has spoken against gay sins and other things. He won't tell you they are going to hell though, because he says he is not the judge. I suppose some folks will be in heaven that will even surprise us.

Joel preaches truth, He will not put anyone in Hell though. I suppose on the outside we should not judge anyone either. There is nothing negative about scripture, but I don't think you meant it that way. The Bible also talks about sins, and things that keep you out of God's best, and Joel seems to preach just God's best, not addressing the what happens if you don't do as your suppose to do.

No worries. You are right...Joel will not be putting anyone in hell...however, he is not keeping them out either. Mike, how do you go from Joel to Copeland and everything in between? I'll give you A+ for enthusiasm, but -C for some of the things you seem to agree with including the gods thing and the no Trinity thing.

Anyway, remarkably off topic

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You should never hear anything from God that does not leave you with Joy or answers. Satan can't mimic this, He is a liar and there is no truth in him. Anything he says, or comes out of his mouth is not true. We are not wary of his devices, and should be able to right away detect this.

One reason so many are deceived is because the devil can and does mimic feelings. Actualy Mike, the devil is very well adapt

at using the truth. He stuffs a lie in the middle of it. People chew on it that type of thing all the time.

Joel Osteen preaches that God is Good, God is going to bring you out, God is going to bring you up. That is scripture, we are more than conquerors because he loves us. More than, means more than enough victory there and then some over every thing. Joel is not preaching bad, he just preaches the same thing with a different angle every time. If we need to hear something else, then we need to listen to other things. It's good though to hear that God loves you, and everything is going to be OK. I need that sometimes.

Why do people feeling so good need to even know about victory? It's all good, right? Gospel light...with artificial sweetener

What we need to hear is all the truth all the time. Mr. Smiley has denied what the word actually states more than once to often.

He is not a unilateralist. He just won't put anyone in hell, and he spends most his time on all the good things God wants to do for you. He has spoken against gay sins and other things. He won't tell you they are going to hell though, because he says he is not the judge. I suppose some folks will be in heaven that will even surprise us.

Joel preaches truth, He will not put anyone in Hell though. I suppose on the outside we should not judge anyone either. There is nothing negative about scripture, but I don't think you meant it that way. The Bible also talks about sins, and things that keep you out of God's best, and Joel seems to preach just God's best, not addressing the what happens if you don't do as your suppose to do.

No worries. You are right...Joel will not be putting anyone in hell...however, he is not keeping them out either. Mike, how do you go from Joel to Copeland and everything in between? I'll give you A+ for enthusiasm, but -C for some of the things you seem to agree with including the gods thing and the no Trinity thing.

Anyway, remarkably off topic offtopic.jpg

I'm so thankful for the off topic dude you gave out! :)
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I'm so thankful for the off topic dude you gave out! :)

Actually, man was the inspiration behind a whole new bunch of smiley possibilties...I now have a smiley folder from which to choose...bet

you would access to more smileys since you have that creativity bug too!

2_zps938a91dd.gif..it's that little bit of humor thing, eh?

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I'm so thankful for the off topic dude you gave out! :)

Actually, man was the inspiration behind a whole new bunch of smiley possibilties...I now have a smiley folder from which to choose...bet

you would access to more smileys since you have that creativity bug too! shew.jpg

2_zps938a91dd.gif..it's that little bit of humor thing, eh?

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The Holy Spirit can't be God because he does not speak of his own, had he been God he would. No, he speaks what he hears.

When we remove all the contradictory scriptures out of the KJV, then I might listen as I study out of the KJV. you have no foundation!

Jn 16:13-15

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority,

but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine

and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

NKJV

The Lord Jesus came to serve and do the will of His Father yet He 'IS' God... The Holy Spirit came to serve the will of Christ

and Speak the Words of Christ yet he 'IS' God... The Father is Holy and Spirit and He 'IS' God! Anything outside of this is

blasphemy against the Word of God... Love, Steven

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Sevenseas:

The devil is very good at moving feelings, but normally not happy ones. The dark cloud days, then something is off days. I don't buy into his stuff, as wrapped in truth or no matter how real it looks, there is still no truth in him, and the truth will actually mostly appeal to your flesh which we should all be aware of.

I disagree. Very much so in fact. Deception would not be so rampant if the devil was bad at what he does and emotions play a VERY strong part in

deception. In fact, I have pretty much ceased going by how I feel....knowing is another thing altogether. Do I have feelings? All kinds.

You may not buy into the truth with a lie, but it is actually in the Bible.

The first instance occurs in the Garden when the serpent tempts Eve with "Hey man, are you sure God actually said that? Didn't He really say

this? A little truth, distorted to shove a lie in. Check out the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness...Did the devil lie to Him? Of course not...

everything He said was the truth...the devil SPOKE scripture...which he often does by the way to those of a religious nature or Christians who

are not aware of his schemes...the devil did not lie to Jesus in what he said...the lie was in the motive....

I'll give you A+ for enthusiasm, but -C for some of the things you seem to agree with including the gods thing and the no Trinity thing.

I don't buy into the trinity thing because Jesus is not a picture, egg white, or part of some machine that makes up a god. He is the Son of God, and God on his own. He has a father that sits right next to him. The Holy Spirit can't be God because he does not speak of his own, had he been God he would. No, he speaks what he hears.

When we remove all the contradictory scriptures out of the KJV, then I might listen as I study out of the KJV.

What on earth Mike? Do you think I thought I was serving up a god to my husband this am when I made him an omelet (with cheese...pretty good stuff)?

I mean how is someone supposed to answer this? It is so far out in left field that people hurt their necks watching it fly by...ok, well there is my 'first response'

so, now I'll calm down LOL!

Jesus just happened to say that He only said what the Father told Him to say and He only did what the Father told Him to do, (see verses below)so,

if I apply to this, what you applied to the Holy Spirit re not speaking from Himself, I would have to conclude that Jesus was not begotten, but rather

just another creature and the virgin birth is a myth since Jesus apparently had no clue unless He first asked the Father (note: no disrespect for God here,

only trying to illustrate the problem with trying apply one understanding to another using the same criteria...hope you followed...)

49 For I do not speak of myself, but from the Father who sent me and commanded me what I should say and what I should speak.

50 And I know that [to obey] his command is life everlasting. Therefore,whatever I speak is just as the Father tells me to speak." John 12: 49-50

So, Jesus only speaks what He hears and only does what He is told to do. Sounds like the Holy Spirit to me. Sounds like all three

are in total agreement. In fact, Jesus only came to earth in the first place BECAUSE He was obedient.

19 Then Jesus answered them and said,"Truly, truly, I say to you; the Son can do nothing of himself [by his own will], but only does what he sees the Father do. For whatever things he [the Father] does, these are also likewise done by the Son John 5:19

(You don't take 5 scriptures and ignore 20) You are right. I don't.

I go to everything in between because of discussions like this. I already heard everything from some different camps about devils. I find it hard to believe that any one camp knows everything.

I agree that one 'camp' knows everything. And if everyone would stop thinking they are the only one who is right, and we all compared notes, we

might have a better understanding. However, I might know more than the average person. I can assure you that is not bragging...I graduated

out of a very tough school and continue to learn. Deception is very close to home and most often in your home.

There is a whole Lot I agree with here about devils and evil spirits.

Jesus Is Lord.

At any rate, best to get back to the devils although this has become a revival and perhaps a revisionist thread

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Steven:

The Lord Jesus came to serve and do the will of His Father yet He 'IS' God... The Holy Spirit came to serve the will of Christ

and Speak the Words of Christ yet he 'IS' God... The Father is Holy and Spirit and He 'IS' God! Anything outside of this is

blasphemy against the Word of God... Love, Steven

This is about Devils brother{this is jehovah witness doctrine of lies], don't want to do the Trinity debate again. Jesus is God{then He can't be the devils brother], He is not God his father though. this statement is not justified by Scripture

Jn 14:9-11

9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

NKJV

He is not part of some piece of a god. He is fully God on his own, and in full agreement with his father. God the Father certainly is not schizophrenic, talking to himself, so we have a mediator, which is His son, our Lord.You are using mans wisdom to discern God's Word...You have to use The Word to understand the Word... as none of us were experientially in the eternal councils of past therefore all must come into faith based reality...

You feel that it's Blasphemy against the Word, I fully understand Brother. God is a Spirit, His Spirit is Holy, makes sense. I don't find any fault in that thinking. It's the way I read the word though. I don't try to spiritual it up, I just read it as it were simple. I don't add to it, or take away from it.

Every single scripture though, God has always taken ownership of the Holy Spirit or His spirit. He never once said it was him, never called the Holy Spirit God. Even the Holy Spirit that gave the Word never called himself a god. With God there is no ownership... it is Unity, Oneness, Sameness, Equality of Being... it is Holy and Pure and the Greatest is the least and the least is the greatest... NOW! God has Spoken His Word and we are to receive it just as it is spoken- in context, grammatical formation, historical presence-> truths formed in this hermeneutic ( as all men can place the diligence of work to arrive at ) as truths gleaned from original intent that can be brought forward without perversion and live out in our lives with the concept of God's blessing of His Word upon them! The concepts of man cannot arrive at the Who of God but God The Holy Spirit can form them in us with the waiting upon Him as His Good Pleasure in doing so!

Jesus said I'll send you a comforter. He did not say I will send you God. The Holy Spirit is a whole different entity that is thinking and Working in line with the owner. He is not God his Father. The scripture say God has seven Spirits, but just a quick study it appears that they are all different attributes provided by One Spirit.

Scripture proof The Holy Spirit 'IS' God in Fulness, Equity, By Being:

'IS' Jehovah. Ex 17:7 in conjunction with Heb 3:7-9; Nu 12:6 in conjunction with 2 Pe 1:21.

…………….. of Hosts. Isa 6:3,8-10 in conjunction with Ac 28:25.

……………...Most High. Ps 78:17,21 in conjunction with Ac 7:51.

……………...called upon as Jehovah. Lk 2:26-29; Ac 4:23-25 in conjunction with Ac 1:16,20; 2 Th 3:5.

Referenced as God. Ac 5:3-4.

Having essence of god:

eternal. Heb 9:14.

Everywhere present. Ps 139:7-13.

Knowing all things. 1 Co 2:10.

Unlimited power. Lk 1:35; Ro 15:19.

God's Spirit and Glory. 1 Pe 4:14.

Creator. Ge 1:26-27 in conjunction with Job 33:4.

Sameness with Father. Mt 28:19; 2 Co 13:14.

Giver of new birth. Jn 3:5-6 in conjunction with 1 Jn 5:4.

Raised Christ from death. Ac 2:24 in conjunction with 1 Pe 3:18; Heb 13:20 in conjuction with Ro 1:4.

Brought about Scripture. 2 Ti 3:16 in conjunction with 2 Pe 1:21.

Appoints and sends ministers. Ac 13:2,4 in conjunction with Mt 9:38; Ac 20:28.

Gospel delivered where. Ac 16:6-7,10.

Is in saints. Jn 14:17 in conjunction with 1 Co 14:25; 1 Co 3:16 in conjunction with 1 Co 6:19.

Comforter of the Bride. Ac 9:31 in conjunction with 2 Co 1:3.

Sanctifying the Church. Eze 37:28 in conjunction with Ro 15:16.

'IS' The Witness. Heb 10:15 in conjunction with 1 Jn 5:9.

As for God taking ownership of the Holy Spirit I could argue that all the times God said my Spirit, would be no different than saying by my right hand. We could say that also, making it God's actual Spirit. Then again we have some tough scriptures to wade though to make that all fit. We can't have one scripture out of place.

I will say this, nobody that believes God is a goo mix of 3 different beings can explain it. If there is only one God, then Jesus is 1/3 of a god. Simple math. They can't explain the many counter scriptures and normally show you some picture in attempts to explain something they don't even understand. I will have enough sense to say I don't fully know about the Holy Spirit. I can't see how it all works yet, but someday I will.

Thank you for Sharing Steven, It's not that you or I don't care, or study, it's the way we see and what has been revealed.

The Trinity Doctrine is very problematic even for those that do believe it, there are questions about where it actually came from and so many counter scriptures to deal with. One article about it, the Author said it best, it's what we choose to believe. That's honest, and I accept that.

The Scripture was not written for us to have options outside of It's Own Authority BUT 'IS' our authority and all that is

written in the hermeneutic substance 'IS', 'WAS' and 'WILL BE' fulfilled to the very jot and tittle of It's Writ... there will be few

surprises for those who labor in It's vineyard of life in The Word...

Jesus Is Lord.

This doesn't require a reply but was written for your considerations... Love, Steven
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Not to be a party blooper, this:

I will say this, nobody that believes God is a goo mix of 3 different beings can explain it. If there is only one God, then Jesus is 1/3 of a god. Simple math. They can't explain the many counter scriptures and normally show you some picture in attempts to explain something they don't even understand. I will have enough sense to say I don't fully know about the Holy Spirit. I can't see how it all works yet, but someday I will.

is like nothing of any understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity I have ever heard/read/studied

I think what you are calling counter scriptures may be so to you but not to others. That being said, I do not know what counter scriptures

you are thinking of but as I do not know any myself, I am guessing you hold some to be so that I might not agree as such

I have never thought of Jesus as 1/3 of God....anyway........back to your questions.......and I have some for consideration but let's tackle

your offering first

1) Are evil spirits acting like Human Ghost?

2) do they physically manifest, has anyone seen one, or had one touch them?

3) Do evil spirits possess inanimate objects? Like a owl statue, or a doll.

4) What roll do they play in the unsaved, and the saved. Are the rolls different, or are they the same.

5) Can evil spirits radiate cold, or some other strong sense or feelings?

6) Can they be cast out of our house, our life?

1. Could you unbefuddle this one for me please

2. ok, as I am reading yr questions, they sound more like a personal opinion poll and possible experience 'do tell' than a scriptural analysis withthe exception of 4

I have not gone back into this thread (which explains my lack of a headache at the present) but I remember than you and I disagreed more often than not...

is that a fair statement?

Let's not discuss the Godhead further...I saw there is actually a thread about that topic anyway

ps...I realize yr questions are not directed just to yours truly but are open to all

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Now Back to evil spirits! what does anyone think of these questions?

1) Are evil spirits acting like Human Ghost?

There are no such things as human ghosts. Whatever people claim to see are not the deceased. Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment"

]2) do they physically manifest, has anyone seen one, or had one touch them?

My spirit gave witness to evil spirits as His spirit revealed them to me, but I have never been touched by one or seen one physically manifest them self.

]3) Do evil spirits possess inanimate objects? Like a owl statue, or a doll.

I don't believe so. I never read once about Jesus casting demons out of any inanimate object, to even confront one.

]4) What roll do they play in the unsaved, and the saved. Are the rolls different, or are they the same.

The roll they play is to turn them from God. How they do it differs.

]5) Can evil spirits radiate cold, or some other strong sense or feelings?

I have heard stories of this, but I have my doubts. Our personal raising and lowering of blood pressure and heart rate will cause us to be warm or cold.

]6) Can they be cast out of our house, our life?

They can be cast out of those people they possess, the unsaved, but setting limits as to where they can go, nope. I am sure they follow some people right into church.

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Thank you Steven. I responded though with I don't fully know.

Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Everything you mentioned come from His power.

The renewing of our minds must go back to the first willfull sin we commited and restructure of thought also from that beginning damage

of sin induced by wrong thinking... I fear most do not effort themselves as such for the sheer work alone= of amount of life and further dispute

of things not considered sin and held in regard by the old mind! I don't believe any of us will have a perfectly repented life BUT thanks be to

Our Lord's perfecct work... the rewards of right thinking bring so much peace and depth of being as to enjoy His Presence as the fire burns

in the heart the myriad of truths and perfect alignement forming a very narrow path of proper thought guarded on each side by the boundaries

of His Word! You think of power but is it as God thinks of it? That is the question isn't it- is my mind becoming as His... Spiritual aquaintance

is to know His Word as He has Written it for precept upon precept ... line upon line... the ultimate answer will come when we step into His

Presence and His acknowlegement of us or His turning away in displeasure not knowing us!

Not by might, strength, but by my Spirit said the Lord. So, if the Holy Spirit is actually God the Father, then why does the Holy Spirit refer to himself as God's Power, and God refer to Him as His Spirit? I am not saying what you believe is untrue, after all us Charismatics say we are filled with God, God lives in us.

God examples Himself to us that we may know by example what true perfection looks and acts like... true power 'IS' simply what it 'IS' and has

no need to prove, show forth, protect itself becaus it is unequaled, unchallenged reality that moves about by the Pleasure of It's Holder God

The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit ... In Their councils it was decided whats what and where and how and why and when and

The Who in each eternal directive and formation brought about by The Father's Good Pleasure... of which we are witness! Now The Holy Spirit is

fulfilling His Directives according to God's Word Perfectly and that is to do as we are seeing which magnifies the minuteness of Scripture's fulfillment

and The Godhead's gifts of such a foundation yet most never even open it to begin to understand what is truely there! To us who are consumed

with it's reality of presence sorrows for what they are missing and fears they miss to much! This is the angst I have for the tongues issue as it is an

encouragement outside of reason and lies in the sensual aspects of feelings used to motivate and draw by that assurance that it is of God... yet the

apex of determination of God's acceptance of us is by knowledge of us and the us of Him

1 Co 2:12-16

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God,

that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which

the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man

does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can

he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges

all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind

of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ

NKJV

This is all predicated upon reason Mike and a thorough examination of Scriptures will show forth God's very much involved with the Word

aspect of communication by reason -renew your mind because the old one just cannot receive the things of God!

All I am saying is there is a reason for this separations, and the Word is written the way it is for a certain reason. Because of that, I don't want to close myself off from learning something. The Holy Spirit is God the Father, end story is not something I can do because of many scriptures. I won't rule it out, but won't say its fact either.

We are all under the same mandate from God

2 Ti 2:15

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

NKJV

2 Ti 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

KJV

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You should never hear anything from God that does not leave you with Joy or answers. Satan can't mimic this, He is a liar and there is no truth in him. Anything he says, or comes out of his mouth is not true. We are not wary of his devices, and should be able to right away detect this.

One reason so many are deceived is because the devil can and does mimic feelings. Actualy Mike, the devil is very well adapt

at using the truth. He stuffs a lie in the middle of it. People chew on it that type of thing all the time.

Joel Osteen preaches that God is Good, God is going to bring you out, God is going to bring you up. That is scripture, we are more than conquerors because he loves us. More than, means more than enough victory there and then some over every thing. Joel is not preaching bad, he just preaches the same thing with a different angle every time. If we need to hear something else, then we need to listen to other things. It's good though to hear that God loves you, and everything is going to be OK. I need that sometimes.

Why do people feeling so good need to even know about victory? It's all good, right? Gospel light...with artificial sweetener

What we need to hear is all the truth all the time. Mr. Smiley has denied what the word actually states more than once to often.

He is not a unilateralist. He just won't put anyone in hell, and he spends most his time on all the good things God wants to do for you. He has spoken against gay sins and other things. He won't tell you they are going to hell though, because he says he is not the judge. I suppose some folks will be in heaven that will even surprise us.

Joel preaches truth, He will not put anyone in Hell though. I suppose on the outside we should not judge anyone either. There is nothing negative about scripture, but I don't think you meant it that way. The Bible also talks about sins, and things that keep you out of God's best, and Joel seems to preach just God's best, not addressing the what happens if you don't do as your suppose to do.

No worries. You are right...Joel will not be putting anyone in hell...however, he is not keeping them out either. Mike, how do you go from Joel to Copeland and everything in between? I'll give you A+ for enthusiasm, but -C for some of the things you seem to agree with including the gods thing and the no Trinity thing.

Anyway, remarkably off topic

I would only insert that both Copeland and Osteen are WOF (Word of Faith), Prosperity, Name it claim it speakers.

Do they help people with money or psychology? Probably, but not too much with that Christian walk. Seems the greatest thing to understand from both of them is that Rich is good with Jesus, and wanted. Seems that they both also help very little with a person that is in true bondage. There are so many people that are under a curse of sorts, and all the positive thinking, prayer oils,,, they are not going to help in the capacity as suggested. Never are we to believe that giving to a particular ministry is going to bring us wealth or happiness.

Ok, I got ranting, so please don't rate my content either. Funny thing~ I believe that gifts exist today. I just don't buy the hyperbole that many are selling.

FYI~ A guy on TBN was selling a series of recording on how to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Was there not a sever admonishing to a former sorcerer for trying to do the same thing? There was a heavy price he paid for that.

Just saying, and yet there are a few decent people on that Channel. Just so embarrassed to instruct some of my newly Christian friends to watch it. UGH

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Thank you Onelight:

I don't believe so. I never read once about Jesus casting demons out of any inanimate object, to even confront one.

I think the book the late great planet Earth had some type of possessed or cursed Object. Many believers attribute problems to possessed things or cursed things in their house. There are Many books like that. Guides for deliverance minister's. I guess then the next question would be, is having a Ouija board in the house at least drawing in bad spirits, or do you think that is something we personally would have to put or faith in to cause an issue?

I believe the junk should not be in the house, but I don't believe it would matter if it was, and if the believer had a right heart with God.

There is one way to the Father and that is through Christ Jesus. However, there are many ways to draw upon evil. You can make anything up that you want and seek evil and it will come like a roaring lion. It does not have to be tarot cards or a Ouija board. Those are just objects used to confirm you are seeking an answer, and since it is not through Jesus, you will not be getting anything from God in return.

Tarot cards, Ouija boards, bones, etc. are just objects people use. They themselves hold no power or answers, they are inanimate objects. Burn them and they do not die. As for what man writes, this is one reason from many why I stick to scripture.

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Can they be cast out of a House? Just made to go away from our habitat?

They can be cast out of those people they possess, the unsaved, but setting limits as to where they can go, nope. I am sure they follow some people right into church.

Well, in my camp, some believe that putting Oil on the door frames and walking around rebuking them in Jesus name "Cleans the home" If you put incense in their hands then I doubt you could tell a difference from what you see on tv as a medium, and a believer. I think they are around all the time, even in the home and we are not to give them place. This oil and door frame is practiced by many Christians. I am sure they get it from the lambs blood on the door frame so the destroyer would pass.

I have yet read in scripture where we are to sprinkle oil over our homes to protect them. Those who believe that have a tendency to believe the oil has a special power or anointing, but I believe Christ is my anointing and He will protect me. I came out of a group of believers who followed the sprinkling of oil everywhere to cast out demons. I left because they could not show me anywhere in scripture where we are told to do so. It is a man made idea. I would be grateful if you can show me where Jesus told us to anoint our homes with oil. We are told to anoint the head of those who we pray for. There is also anointing the heads of those who enter our house. Each time, it is a person they anoint, not an object.

Mark 6:13 "And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them."

James 5:14 "Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord."

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Sevenseas.

Quote

ps...I realize yr questions are not directed just to yours truly but are open to all

I would never attempt to annoy you. You do believe that right? :)

Jesus Is Lord.

????.......I'm fine....no probs :)

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