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Water and Baptism?

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#1
Edwin

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I would like to know just what your understanding of "water" is in the verse below.

 

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 

 

Thank you.

 

Edwin.



#2
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I would like to know just what your understanding of "water" is in the verse below.

 

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 

 

 

John 4

13 Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again,

14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."



#3
bopeep1909

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That is the Holy Spirit.



#4
other one

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I would like to know just what your understanding of "water" is in the verse below.

 

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 

 

Thank you.

 

Edwin.

it is my understanding that born of water is physical birth and of the Spirit would be the rebirth through the Holy Spirit.   Natural birth is literally being born of water.



#5
Edwin

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Thank you other one for your comments.

 

You confirm what I already believe.

 

Bless you.

 

Edwin.



#6
Reformed Baptist

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John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. ( NKJ)
 
I don't think you can bifurcate "water" and "Spirit" in such a fashion to suggest that Jesus is referring to two different births. My reasons for this are as follows.
 
1) It is redundant statement, of course ones needs to be born before one can be born again. It didn't need to be said. 
 
2) "water" and "Spirit" are used conjuctively in 3:5, however in 3:6 "Spirit" and "flesh" are used disjuntively, accordingly "water" and "flesh" cannot be equated, therefore there is no reference to physical birth in Jesus' words. 
 
The best way to understand what Jesus is saying is to understand that being born of water and the Spirit is a reference to only one birth - the new birth. It is offered by Jesus in a direct rebuttal of Nicodemus' obtuse line of reasoning. Following the context, Nicodemus has come to Jesus with an agenda. He begins his carefully prepared speech, and Jesus abruptly (and rudely) cuts him off, by telling him to forget his agenda and be born again. In response the teacher of the Jews resorts to a rhetorical trick of mocking Jesus' words, in response Jesus basically says, 'it doesn't matter what you think, you need to be born again'  


#7
Montana Marv

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Born of water is our physical birth, identifies us as the descendants of Adam.   For this statement rules out angels being part of the body of Christ.

 

Born of the Spirit is our Spiritual birth, identifies us with Christ.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv



#8
Reformed Baptist

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Born of water is our physical birth, identifies us as the descendants of Adam.   For this statement rules out angels being part of the body of Christ.

Whilst it is true that angels cannot be part of the body of Christ doesn't seem a little strange to you that Jesus would be ruling out the angels from being born again in a conversation that is nothing to do with angels being born again? 

 

Now where else do we read of being born of water in the bible as a reference to physical birth. 

 

Again this is redundant if this is what Jesus was saying, for he would be saying things that Nicodemus already new. 

 

Born of the Spirit is our Spiritual birth, identifies us with Christ.

 

Yes Spiritual birth is a work of the Spirit, but it is not a work of the Spirit that is performed in a vacuum, instead it is a work that is performed through the word of God. My point here being that one does not need to isolate being born of the Spirit to be theologically correct. Going back to my previous post I have demonstrated why we should take this whole phrase 'being born of water and the Spirit' to refer to the spiritual rebirth. To put what i said before in more simple terms if Jesus was referring to two separate births then he would, most likely' have said, "one must be born of water and one must be born of the Spirit." but he didn't, he said we must be born "of water and Spirit" - Think for a moment of other places in scripture where we have two nouns used in a similar fashion - do we bifurcate them, for example, Titus 2:13, where we read that Jesus is God and saviour - if we don't do it there, why would we do it here in this text?



#9
Butch5

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I would like to know just what your understanding of "water" is in the verse below.

 

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 

 

Thank you.

 

Edwin.

It's water



#10
gdemoss

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Jesus came not to baptize nor did he send Paul to do so.  Jesus turned water into wine.  John baptized with water as did Jesus' disciples.  John refused those who did not come with fruit meet unto repentance.  Water is the most critical element in the process of conversion.  Naaman was told he must dip in the Jordan seven times to be healed of his leprosy.  Water symbolized our desire to be cleansed and return unto God.  My baptism was a sign of my willingness to follow Christ as he was first baptized before me though he needed it not.  As had happened to some in the bible my water baptism came after the spirit fell upon me and I first spoke with my tongue professing Jesus to be Christ the son of the living God but it is not always so.  Some are processed quite the opposite.  They go to church.  They get baptized.  They go through the motions but then one day the spirit falls upon them and they are suddenly on fire like never before.  Unfortunately many of our brethren are never taught that the Spirit of Christ is what we truly seek to have in us.  Many who are moved powerfully by the spirit at some point fall due to sin and selfish desire but never restored to their proper place through repentance and confession followed by amends making.  Instead they become the walking dead of Christendom.

 

It is all about being washed in the Water of the Word.  There is nothing like the feeling of getting out of a fresh bath or shower when one feels clean.  There is nothing that compares to a baptism or immersion in the Water of Gods Word to give you that oh so fresh feeling all over again.  Moisture to the dry bones.  I bathe regularly :)  Peace unto all who are washed though they were once filthy.  No rest unto those who were washed but wallow again in the mud as do pigs.  That is the declaration of the word of God.  And God I know what it is like to go swimming back in the muddy water of despair!  Does anybody want to be Gods Water Boy?



#11
rebbell

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I believe the WORD is the Water. Hence, washed by the water of the Word.
The Word is the Water (of Truth) that cleanses ones spirit.

God Bless

#12
JohnDB

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That is the Holy Spirit.

 

Agreed. You were commenting on a quote about rivers of water from the belly (innards / heart) John 7:37...

 

And in the OP "the Spirit" is mentioned separately from "the water."

 

Water can also mean the masses of people as in Revelation 17:15. Some even say it has to do with the amniotic fluid of the womb (our being born human).

 

Either way it is saying that salvation is for humans.

 

Angels cannot be saved because they are already in their forever state.

 

Humans (because we are hybrids and can die and be resurrected) can be saved once the sin debt is fully paid by a kinsman redeemer (which Jesus did).



#13
Butch5

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HI Edwin,

 

It's water. It's the same thing He said in Mark 16, 'He who believes and is baptized shall be saved'. There's no reason to think that His use of  the word water means anything other than simply, water. It's a reference to baptism



#14
veryberry

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Born of water is our physical birth, identifies us as the descendants of Adam.   For this statement rules out angels being part of the body of Christ.

Whilst it is true that angels cannot be part of the body of Christ doesn't seem a little strange to you that Jesus would be ruling out the angels from being born again in a conversation that is nothing to do with angels being born again? 

 

Now where else do we read of being born of water in the bible as a reference to physical birth. 

 

Again this is redundant if this is what Jesus was saying, for he would be saying things that Nicodemus already new. 

 

 

 

Born of the Spirit is our Spiritual birth, identifies us with Christ.

 

Yes Spiritual birth is a work of the Spirit, but it is not a work of the Spirit that is performed in a vacuum, instead it is a work that is performed through the word of God. My point here being that one does not need to isolate being born of the Spirit to be theologically correct. Going back to my previous post I have demonstrated why we should take this whole phrase 'being born of water and the Spirit' to refer to the spiritual rebirth. To put what i said before in more simple terms if Jesus was referring to two separate births then he would, most likely' have said, "one must be born of water and one must be born of the Spirit." but he didn't, he said we must be born "of water and Spirit" - Think for a moment of other places in scripture where we have two nouns used in a similar fashion - do we bifurcate them, for example, Titus 2:13, where we read that Jesus is God and saviour - if we don't do it there, why would we do it here in this text?

 

John 3: 4 - Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

This verse seems to point that Nicodemus did not understand.  How can one be born again?

 

John 3: 5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

The context is about birth.  There is water birth, which is physical birth.  When you are in the womb, you are in a sack of water.  When you are born, both you and the water come out. Jesus gives the meaning in the following verse

 

John 3: 6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.

 

There is nothing talking about baptism.  There is nothing talking about the word of God.



#15
veryberry

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HI Edwin,

 

It's water. It's the same thing He said in Mark 16, 'He who believes and is baptized shall be saved'. There's no reason to think that His use of  the word water means anything other than simply, water. It's a reference to baptism

There is nothing about baptism in the context.  Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation. See post above....



#16
rebbell

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I think you should pray about it and ask GOD.
Read the scripture.
Ponder the scripture.
Read the scripture again. And again, and again....
God will tell you the Truth, if you are persistant.


There is no 'one accord' on the matter. And a couple seem to be the only one that can be right.
Every man is a liar; let GOD be true.

God Bless

#17
Butch5

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HI Edwin,

 

It's water. It's the same thing He said in Mark 16, 'He who believes and is baptized shall be saved'. There's no reason to think that His use of  the word water means anything other than simply, water. It's a reference to baptism

There is nothing about baptism in the context.  Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation. See post above....

 

However, John the Baptist did announce the Messiah and had been baptizing for quite a while. Actually, water baptism has quite a bit to do with salvation. All one needs to do is look at how the first believers understood the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles



#18
veryberry

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HI Edwin,

 

It's water. It's the same thing He said in Mark 16, 'He who believes and is baptized shall be saved'. There's no reason to think that His use of  the word water means anything other than simply, water. It's a reference to baptism

There is nothing about baptism in the context.  Water baptism has nothing to do with salvation. See post above....

 

However, John the Baptist did announce the Messiah and had been baptizing for quite a while. Actually, water baptism has quite a bit to do with salvation. All one needs to do is look at how the first believers understood the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles

 

Yes, John baptized with water for the remission of sins. In acts 2: 38, Peter baptized for the remission of sins. They were both for the same purpose, The Kingdom of Heaven. Not the Kingdom of God.    The verse in question is not talking about baptism, but a flesh birth.

 

I don't want to high jack the post so we can talk about whether or not water baptism is needed for salvation in another thread.



#19
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John 3: 5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

 

The context is about birth.  There is water birth, which is physical birth.  When you are in the womb, you are in a sack of water.  When you are born, both you and the water come out. Jesus gives the meaning in the following verse

 

John 3: 6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.

 

 

There's only one way to be born, so it would be redundant for Jesus to include that as one of the requirements to becoming born again. 

 

Being "born of water" is not the physical birth, nor do I believe He is referencing water baptism.

 

Jesus is the living water...the water of life. Unless we believe and accept the word of Jesus, we cannot be born of the Spirit. 



#20
veryberry

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So we must be born of the living water...So verse 6 has no explanation to what he said in verse 5 or are you looking over that?

 

We know when one is born of water, in most cases its in the hospital.  A common saying, "I think my water broke".

 

But we do not know when one is born of the Spirit.

John 3: 8 -The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

Did Nicodemus understand that he was talking about birth? Yes. But he did not understand what he meant when he said "you must be born again".  How many times have you been born?  Hopefully twice, because if you are born once, then you are not saved.






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