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Two horned Lamb is a dual power like Two horned Ram in Daniel

* * * * * 1 votes Revelation 13:11 two horned lamb false prophet two horned ram 666

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#1
Alfred Persson

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11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.

12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

(Rev 13:11-12 NKJ)

 

While the Beast of Rev 13:1-2 rises from the sea, this Two Horned Beast rises from the earth. This harkens back to the OT symbolism of the sea as raging against the boundaries set by God (Ps 104:9; Job 38:11), and its Beasts the ferocious opposition of both humans and angels (Isa. 27:1; 51:9; Ps. 74:13–14; 89:9–10). Hence the same world power "Beasts" that "came up from the sea" (Dan 7:2-3) symbolizing their demonic origin and character, as "kings" (=Kingdoms" lxx) arise "out of the earth" ---alluding to their human origin and character compared to God's eternal Kingdom (Dan 7:17f). Whether they rise from sea or earth, these rise from "peoples, nations, tongues, and kings." (Rev 10:8, 11 NKJ)

 

The two horned lamb is "another" (243 allos) “of the same sort”, not "another" (heteros 2087) expressing "a qualitative difference and denotes “another of a different sort.” -(1996). Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words. Nashville, TN: T. Nelson. As it also exercises all the authority of the first beast (Rev 13:1-2) in his presence (Rev 13:12 NKJ) it must be another world power equal to it.----Therefore it is a dual world power like the two horned Ram of Daniel (Dan 7:20) and not a parody of Christ.

 

Scripture does not concern itself with the world's empires that had no impact upon Israel. Hence the Mogul, Inca, Maya, Chinese, Japanese and other empires having nothing to do with Israel, aren't counted among the Seven Kingdoms that opposed God: "Five have fallen (the Egyptian, the Assyrian, the Babylonian, the Medo-Persian, the Grecian), one is (the Historical Roman)," therefore the next consecutive Kingdom that impacted Israel that had "not yet come" in John's Day is the Anglo-American. Although the first horn Britain was the world's greatest Empire upon whom the sun never set, its former possession the United States, which came up later, is now history's greatest superpower whose military technology "performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. (Rev 13:13 NKJ)". Israel wouldn't exist today if not for Britain's good offices, nor would it have survived this long without the military backing of America.

 

Formerly Christian, this dual power joins the Antichrist confederation of Ten Nations constituting the revived Roman empire, and via their creation of the United Nations, to become the false prophet of the New World Order.

 

Their wondrous Bio-Technology gives life and intelligence to a Supercomputer Image of the Beast that will establish and enforce the 666 Statism all must participate in, if they will enjoy the largess of the state. As in the 1987 Movie "Empire of the Sun," it will teach "people will do anything for a potato."

 

13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. (Rev 13:13-18 NKJ)

 

Well, that's what I think: What say you?


Edited by Alfred Persson, 04 January 2014 - 10:31 PM.


#2
Alfred Persson

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Conservative scholarship uncritically accepts the United States is not mentioned in Bible prophecy. For example, Dr. David Jeremiah in "What In The World Is Going On" approvingly quotes Dr. Tim LaHaye:

 

"One of the hardest things for American prophecy students to accept is that the United States is not clearly mentioned in Bible prophecy, yet our nation is the only superpower in the world today."

 

He then lists various theories that might explain how that can be true:

 

1.)The revived Roman Empire will be a consolidation of the power of the West;

2.) America will be invaded by outside forces;

3.) America will collapse economically;

4.) America will be crippled by terrorist or natural catastrophe;

5.) America will be crippled by moral decay;

6.) America will be impotent because of the rapture.

                                                          

While some might find #6 optimistic, I'll concede any one of these theories might explain why America is not found in Bible prophecy, IF THAT WERE TRUE.

 

I don't believe it is possible, given Daniels interpretation of first three parts of the image. The universal premise in each, only Gentile powers that affect the nation of  Israel, count. Not just any Gentile powers.

Nebuchadnezzar who is the head of the Babylonian Empire, was the head of gold (v. 38); The chest and arms of silver, the Medes and Persians (cf. 5:28; 6:8; also cf. 5:31); The belly and thighs of bronze the Grecian Empire (cf. 8:20–21), from whence Antiochus arose.

 

Not one Chinese, Japanese, South American, Indian Empires are considered a possible substitute for any these, all scholars seek fulfillment in the Middle East and specifically among those nations affecting Israel.

 

Babylon is the head of the image:

"March of 597 B.C., Nebuchadnezzar besieged Jerusalem and placed Zedekiah, Jehoiachin’s uncle, in control. Josephus, in his Jewish Antiquities, and the OT relate an account of a second siege of Jerusalem in 586 B.C. that resulted in the destruction of Solomon’s temple and the beginning of the so-called Babylonian Captivity of the Jews that was to last until 538 B.C."Sack, R. H. (1992). Nebuchadnezzar (Person). In (D. N. Freedman, Ed.)The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary. New York: Doubleday.

 

Medes and Persians:

In Isa 45:1–3 the prophet speaks of Cyrus as the anointed of Yahweh who is destined to subdue all nations before him. In return for this favor, of course, the prophet notes (Isa 45:13) that Cyrus will restore the Jewish exiles to their native land. In short, Cyrus has been called by God to capture Babylon, to free the Jews from their bondage, and by inference to permit them to return to Jerusalem.-Young, T. C., Jr. (1992). Cyrus (Person). In (D. N. Freedman, Ed.)The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary. New York: Doubleday.

 

Grecian:

This part of the vision anticipated the rise of a ruler in the Greek Empire who subjugated the people and land of Israel, desecrated her temple, interrupted her worship, and demanded for himself the authority and worship that belongs to God.-Pentecost, J. D. (1985). Daniel. In J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck (Eds.), The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (Vol. 1, p. 1356). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.

 

Hence scholars, building upon the implied premise only those nations that affect Israel count, conclude the legs of iron represent the Roman Empire which destroyed the Temple and the Israel as a Nation and consider the Eastern and Western halves symbolized by the two legs.

 

Therefore, Scholars contradict their own exegesis when they refuse to consider the dual world power of Britain and America, both containing much of the iron of the Roman Empire, as part of the duality represented by the two feet dividing the Ten Toes.

 

The angel of God certainly found it plausible a two horned beast represented a Gentile Government, one of which arose from the other:

 

20 "The ram which you saw, having the two horns-- they are the kings of Media and Persia. (Dan 8:20 NKJ)

 

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. (Rev 13:11 NKJ)

 

So the dilemma facing those who accept the conclusion America isn't found in Bible prophecy is this:

If only those Gentile powers affecting Israel are counted as "heads" of the beast (Rev 17:10) and these are the last days, then how is it the Gentile Governments most responsible for the rebirth of Israel (UK, US, UN) and its continued existence, are not mentioned in scripture?

 

Critically speaking, if neither the UK, US or UN, which solely are responsible for modern day Israel's existence, are not in prophecy, then these cannot be the last days.

 

And that conclusion would be rejected by all who believe the Bible divinely inspired prophecy.


Edited by Alfred Persson, 09 January 2014 - 11:02 AM.


#3
ARGOSY

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i believe Daniel 2 describes the divided Rome as still a significant power at the second coming. Rome divided into Western Europe and Turkey, these are the two feet of iron and clay.

 

Now Revelation 13 once again describes a two-part empire that has significant power in the end-times. It is described as a beast (wild animal/aurochs). Beasts represent empires. This beast has two little horns, this means this beast has two small centres of power. I believe the two-horned beast and the two feet are the same two religious empires, because its highly unlikely there are four dominant powers at the end. And so I believe the two little horns (horns like a lamb's horns - ie very small) are the cities of Rome and Istanbul.

 

Quite simply, Turkey will set up a new Union in the Middle East, of ten countries. The EU will join this union and so we will have a vast Islamic empire. This empire will allow the Jews to govern a larger region, and will allow them a temple, and a leader (false Messiah) and so there will be peace in the Middle East during the rule of this false Jewish Messiah.

 

Jesus warned us about false prophets (Mohamed) and false Christs (Jewish leaders) and we are to watch out for both.



#4
ARGOSY

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Hence scholars, building upon the implied premise only those nations that affect Israel count, conclude the legs of iron represent the Roman Empire which destroyed the Temple and the Israel as a Nation and consider the Eastern and Western halves symbolized by the two legs.

 

Therefore, Scholars contradict their own exegesis when they refuse to consider the dual world power of Britain and America, both containing much of the iron of the Roman Empire, as part of the duality represented by the two feet dividing the Ten Toes.

 

The angel of God certainly found it plausible a two horned beast represented a Gentile Government, one of which arose from the other:

 

20 "The ram which you saw, having the two horns-- they are the kings of Media and Persia. (Dan 8:20 NKJ)

 

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. (Rev 13:11 NKJ)

 

So the dilemma facing those who accept the conclusion America isn't found in Bible prophecy is this:

 

If only those Gentile powers affecting Israel are counted as "heads" of the beast (Rev 17:10) and these are the last days, then how is it the Gentile Governments most responsible for the rebirth of Israel (UK, US, UN) and its continued existence, are not mentioned in scripture?

 

Critically speaking, if neither the UK, US or UN, which solely are responsible for modern day Israel's existence, are not in prophecy, then these cannot be the last days.

 

And that conclusion would be rejected by all who believe the Bible divinely inspired prophecy.

 

I believe the 4th empire is Rome, but this is a loose symbolic word representing the West from a Middle Eastern perspective. Thus from Israel's perspective the UK, France, Italy and USA are its western allies. From an Islamic perspective these countries are their western enemies.

 

Thus the USA is in prophecy, but merely as a province of Rome, without need of specific mention. A term rarely used is "the western coastlands", which would include western Europe and also North America from an Israeli perspective.  Rome has two divisions, each which have shared control over Israel for thousands of years, the two divisions are Western Europe  and Turkey. Control may currently rest with western Rome since WW1, but may soon shift once more to Eastern Rome (Istanbul/Turkey) in the near future. Whichever power dominates Israel, its still Rome, the fourth kingdom.



#5
kingdomwitness

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the two horned lamb is religious Rome

#6
Alfred Persson

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the two horned lamb is religious Rome

 

If that is so, who is the Beast in Rev 13:1?



#7
Alfred Persson

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I believe the 4th empire is Rome, but this is a loose symbolic word representing the West from a Middle Eastern perspective. Thus from Israel's perspective the UK, France, Italy and USA are its western allies. From an Islamic perspective these countries are their western enemies.

 

Thus the USA is in prophecy, but merely as a province of Rome, without need of specific mention. A term rarely used is "the western coastlands", which would include western Europe and also North America from an Israeli perspective.  Rome has two divisions, each which have shared control over Israel for thousands of years, the two divisions are Western Europe  and Turkey. Control may currently rest with western Rome since WW1, but may soon shift once more to Eastern Rome (Istanbul/Turkey) in the near future. Whichever power dominates Israel, its still Rome, the fourth kingdom.

 

 

 

Perhaps you'll educate me, what is to be gained by not following Daniel's lead interpreting a two horned Beast as a dual world power?

 

While I agree the confederation of these world powers, unties to support the Antichrist, what is to be gained by denying the US is mentioned in prophecy?

 

To me, that works against the premise the Bible is inspired prophecy, IF THESE are the last days. Now if the last days are a few centuries from now, then its explicable how this nation, so trashed by crooked politicians and a disinterested public evidently craving socialism, won't be a factor in the end time.


Edited by Alfred Persson, 16 January 2014 - 10:03 AM.


#8
His_disciple3

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I think the Op put a lot of thought to something that won't even be, two horns like a lamb, is not a two horned lamb, it is something that will have two horns like a lamb. At the Baptism of Jesus the Holy Spirit descended like a dove it was not a dove, but LIKE a dove. maybe He moved like a dove, Jesus praying in the garden and His Sweat became if it were Blood, It did not turn to Blood but LIKE blood, it could have very well been dipping off him like Blood drops. heard a sermon once lasted a whole hour, on all kind of medical research on how it is possible for a human to sweat so hard the they actually start bleeding. I look LIKE my brother does not Mean I become my brother, I flew through the air LIKE a Bird, does not mean I became a bird

#9
ARGOSY

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I believe the 4th empire is Rome, but this is a loose symbolic word representing the West from a Middle Eastern perspective. Thus from Israel's perspective the UK, France, Italy and USA are its western allies. From an Islamic perspective these countries are their western enemies.

 

Thus the USA is in prophecy, but merely as a province of Rome, without need of specific mention. A term rarely used is "the western coastlands", which would include western Europe and also North America from an Israeli perspective.  Rome has two divisions, each which have shared control over Israel for thousands of years, the two divisions are Western Europe  and Turkey. Control may currently rest with western Rome since WW1, but may soon shift once more to Eastern Rome (Istanbul/Turkey) in the near future. Whichever power dominates Israel, its still Rome, the fourth kingdom.

 

 

 

Perhaps you'll educate me, what is to be gained by not following Daniel's lead interpreting a two horned Beast as a dual world power?

 

While I agree the confederation of these world powers, unties to support the Antichrist, what is to be gained by denying the US is mentioned in prophecy?

 

To me, that works against the premise the Bible is inspired prophecy, IF THESE are the last days. Now if the last days are a few centuries from now, then its explicable how this nation, so trashed by crooked politicians and a disinterested public evidently craving socialism, won't be a factor in the end time.

 

 

I completely agree with Daniel's lead that a two-horned beast is a dual world power, and I believe you are wise to have picked that up. Reading Daniel 2 I personally believe that clay represents true religion (able to be moulded) and yet brittle or miry clay represents that true religion distorted. So when I read Daniel 2 it speaks to me of the two divisions of Rome being distorted by a false religious system that has entered each region during the end-times. Then when I read Revelation 13 which also speaks of a two part religious empire that dominates world politics at the end-times its obvious to me that there are not 4 religious empires at the end, and so the wild beast with the two tiny horns like a lamb's horns is in my logic, the same two divisions of Rome, being Istanbul and Vatican. Two religious powers. Two false prophet capital cities acting as one.

 

And so I'm not trying to avoid the USA in prophecy I just don't believe its there. 

 

If you understand conspiracy then you would understand that European bankers raise and destroy countries at will, the USA is strong because Europe needs its armies right now to subdue the Middle East. While the USA populace feels that their armies are doing good in the Middle East, European bankers can continue to milk the situation without committing European armies to pacify their backdoor. Now that the Middle East is subdued the following three allies of the West are stronger in the region:   Israel, Turkey and the Kurds.  Entire populations in the Middle East are now prepared to go the Sunni way, be west friendly and await a western Messiah due to watching the enemies of the West being crushed into pieces like Iraq/Syria/Afghanistan. So its Europe puling the strings, not the USA. The USA is the willing agent. Prophesy confirms this by focussing on Europe.



#10
ARGOSY

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I think the Op put a lot of thought to something that won't even be, two horns like a lamb, is not a two horned lamb, it is something that will have two horns like a lamb. At the Baptism of Jesus the Holy Spirit descended like a dove it was not a dove, but LIKE a dove. maybe He moved like a dove, Jesus praying in the garden and His Sweat became if it were Blood, It did not turn to Blood but LIKE blood, it could have very well been dipping off him like Blood drops. heard a sermon once lasted a whole hour, on all kind of medical research on how it is possible for a human to sweat so hard the they actually start bleeding. I look LIKE my brother does not Mean I become my brother, I flew through the air LIKE a Bird, does not mean I became a bird

 

Exactly, a beast is a wild animal/aurochs. A beast with horn's like a lamb, is a wild animal with two tiny horns. I'm not sure where people get a lamb from, this beast is nothing like a lamb. Just its horns resemble a lamb's horns, which means they are tiny horns.

 

Because horns represent countries/divisions of an empire, this means that this wild beast empire that practically controls the world has two small centres of power, possibly the Vatican/Pope and the Istanbul Caliph/Caliphate.



#11
ARGOSY

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the two horned lamb is religious Rome

 

If that is so, who is the Beast in Rev 13:1?

 

Its the new Middle Eastern Union. When we see the ten horns, this is the final phase of the 3 phases of the Rome superpower:

 

Daniel 2

Iron legs   =   Rome

Iron and clay  =  Rome and Istanbul

Ten toes  =  Ten Middle East regions

 

Daniel 7

Beast = Rome

Little horn = Ten Middle East regions

 

Rev 13

Beast = Ten Middle East regions  (Leopard/lion/bear)

Two-horned beast =  Rome and Istanbul

 

Rev 17

Woman = Rome

Beast = Ten Middle East regions

 

 

Each prophecy is saying the same thing but in a different way.






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