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Dear rapture believers

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#1
fire-heart

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You know something doesn't make sense to me. lots of ppl are saying how close the rapture is and believe it too but as much as i hope it is i cannot get myself to believe it because God has not given me any indication that the time is truly near. ppl say it could happen any day but i for some reason cannot believe it, i try to force myself to but i just cant. i remember before i even knew what the rapture was something happened to me i had this sense of knowing inside me that Jesus was comimng for me, i didnt know what it meant or why he was coming for me but i just knew. in one of my rapture dreams there was also that sense of knowing. so if he was really that close to coming for us wouldnt he let us know somehow? lots of ppl go to youtube to watch videos of rapture dreams or a word from the Lord that he is coming soon but i dont want to go to youtube or other ppl to know he is coming i think we should just know somehow. Why can i not seem to believe any more? i want to believe i want to have faith that its nearly time to go home but i guess i am just tired of hoping and then being let down because nothing happens. I simply don't belong here i dont fit in with this world, everyone in this world wants different things than me and i seek things that only God has but as long as i am bound by the flesh i can never truly have them because the flesh is strong.
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#2
bopeep1909

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You know something doesn't make sense to me. lots of ppl are saying how close the rapture is and believe it too but as much as i hope it is i cannot get myself to believe it because God has not given me any indication that the time is truly near. ppl say it could happen any day but i for some reason cannot believe it, i try to force myself to but i just cant. i remember before i even knew what the rapture was something happened to me i had this sense of knowing inside me that Jesus was comimng for me, i didnt know what it meant or why he was coming for me but i just knew. in one of my rapture dreams there was also that sense of knowing. so if he was really that close to coming for us wouldnt he let us know somehow? lots of ppl go to youtube to watch videos of rapture dreams or a word from the Lord that he is coming soon but i dont want to go to youtube or other ppl to know he is coming i think we should just know somehow. Why can i not seem to believe any more? i want to believe i want to have faith that its nearly time to go home but i guess i am just tired of hoping and then being let down because nothing happens. I simply don't belong here i dont fit in with this world, everyone in this world wants different things than me and i seek things that only God has but as long as i am bound by the flesh i can never truly have them because the flesh is strong.

The rapture in imminent.Their will be no warning.It will happen suddenly.You might want to pray to God for him to increase your faith.We know that we do not belong here.We are not of this world.Our soul knows that.We are longing for our real home.I feel like a flower in the desert on this earth.


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#3
Parker1

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Just keep praying for His return and you try to advance His cause. The Rapture is numbers driven, so you never know, You may be the one that leads that one person to the Holy Spirit that triggers Christ's return. Hang in there, man.


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#4
bopeep1909

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Just keep praying for His return and you try to advance His cause. The Rapture is numbers driven, so you never know, You may be the one that leads that one person to the Holy Spirit that triggers Christ's return. Hang in there, man.

Yes Parker   :mgcheerful:


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#5
Spock

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At an hour you LEAST EXPECT my brother. If you expected it, he would be a liar.
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#6
bopeep1909

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At an hour you LEAST EXPECT my brother. If you expected it, he would be a liar.

Yes  :mgcheerful:


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#7
Cletus

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Greetings. Perhaps God wants to focus on other areas in your life right now. I mean based on your own words you believe/know He is coming for you. No man knows the day or the hour. He wont tell you dont even waste your time asking that. Acts 1:7 says:
and He said unto them, it is not for you to know the the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in his own power.

Just rejoice He IS coming and then all this worldly vexation will be over. No more tears. No more death. Streets made of gold. Peace. Joy. white robe. A new name. Ahh man i can only imagine.
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#8
bopeep1909

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We will just be there.It will be faster than we could ever imagine.Standing there before Him on our white robes.It will definitely be a Glorious day.


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#9
Marilyn C

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Hi fire-heart

 

The Lord has given us clear words concerning His coming for the Body of Christ. So be encouraged.

 

 

Now, Israel in partial blindness, to them Christ said He would come to them as a thief in the night. (Matt. 24: 42 - 44) And to the `dead,` church of Sardis Christ said He would come to them as a thief also if they did not wake up. (Rev. 3: 1 - 3)

 

 

BUT to the Body of Christ the Lord says -

 

`But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you, for you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night........BUT YOU, brethren, are NOT IN DARKNESS so that this day should overtake you as a thief......`(1 Thess. 5: 1 - 12)

 

Good to read the rest of that chapter about leading a quiet life so we walk properly towards those outside.

 

 

Now to another good scripture to guide & comfort us -

 

`let us draw near....let us hold fast.....let us consider one another in order to stir up love & good works. not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together.....but exhorting one another, & so much the more as you see the Day approaching.`  (Heb. 10: 22 - 25)

 

 

Dear fire-heart, keep looking to the Lord for when you see, know in your heart the time is drawing near then there will be more & more gatherings together in small groups to encourage & comfort each other. Note the `assembling together,` does not necessarily refer to public gatherings, but rather small groupings where people can encourage & exhort each other in close relationship.

 

It will be a `Body` recognition of the timing, not just a few. 


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#10
inchrist

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The doctrine of Imminence or Rapture does not exist, it contradicts itself....we dont know when the Lord will rapture us....no one knows the time or day....yet the bible tells when

The man of sin must be revealed before the rapture.  Is this not a sign that must precede the rapture? 
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#11
Enoch2021

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The doctrine of Imminence or Rapture does not exist, it contradicts itself....we dont know when the Lord will rapture us....no one knows the time or day....yet the bible tells when

The man of sin must be revealed before the rapture.  Is this not a sign that must precede the rapture? 

 

 

============================================================================

 

The doctrine of Imminence or Rapture does not exist, it contradicts itself.

 

And.....? 

 

See, when you make a statement or Proffer a "Blind" Conjecture it's a well established Protocol to SUPPORT IT with evidence; otherwise, it's worthless.

 

Then you say.....

 

"we dont know when the Lord will rapture us....no one knows the time or day"

 

Whereby contradicting your previous statement...as this is The Doctrine of Imminence.

 

Then you say....

 

"yet the bible tells when"

 

Contradicting your previous statement.

 

This is like an Unsupported Conjecture Contradiction Bonanza in One Sentence.

 

The man of sin must be revealed before the rapture.

 

And....?  SUPPORT?

 

 

Is this not a sign that must precede the rapture?

 

No, because your Presupposition...."The man of sin must be revealed before the rapture." ...... Is Erroneous.


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#12
Butero

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The rapture could take place any moment, or it could be many years off.  I believe the signs of the times indicate it will be soon, but that doesn't mean I can predict it will take place today.  It could be 20 years off.  The main thing is to be watching for the Lord's return and not to lose faith.  If Jesus said he will return, he will keep his word. 


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#13
inchrist

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enoch 2021

please enlighting me on my error
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Matt24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

In scripture Israel is called a fig tree, just like russia is a bear, england a lion etc.

 

So, when you see the fig tree (Israel) put forth leaves. (Return to the land such as 1948) then expect Christ to be at the door.

 

Whats the generation? Its the generation that see"s Israel returned to the land. That generation is now 66 years old.

 

This generation will witness the Christ returning.


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Enoch2021

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enoch 2021

please enlighting me on my error

 

 

Start here: http://www.worthychr...-6#entry2100900

 

Then follow it to the inevitable conclusion.


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#16
inchrist

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@Enoch 2021

The conclusion I came too is as follows

"taken” in greek means something the other way round ginomaibecome, be; happen, take place, arise...; come into being, be born or created; be done (of things), become something (of persons); come, go...; appear. (A Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament, London: United Bible Societies, 1971, p.37)  

Now this i find very interesting you said the following
Strong's # 1096: ginomai. a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb 1. to become2. to arise Lets have a look....(2 Thessalonians 2:7) "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he betaken out of the way." So "he" will be taken (ARISE) out of the way.  Thanks  

I find it amazing how you quickly gravitated to the word "arise" ? why not come into being? or be born or created?

The reason you picked arise is to force your idea of a rapture...again taking the context of the meaning of ginomai completely out of place
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firestormx

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Is this not a sign that must precede the rapture?

 
No, because your Presupposition...."The man of sin must be revealed before the rapture." ...... Is Erroneous.

 


I have been really enjoying your conversation with each other but since he jumped over this one, I thought I would share where the support for his statement is in the bible.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,.

 

Whether you agree with this belief or not, this is where this understanding comes from. or at least one of the places it comes from.


Edited by firestormx, 01 May 2014 - 11:36 AM.

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#18
Enoch2021

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Is this not a sign that must precede the rapture?

 
No, because your Presupposition...."The man of sin must be revealed before the rapture." ...... Is Erroneous.

 


I have been really enjoying your conversation with each other but since he jumped over this one, I thought I would share where the support for his statement is in the bible.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,.

 

Whether you agree with this belief or not, this is where this understanding comes from. or at least one of the places it comes from.

 

 

 

 

====================================================================

 

 

Yes, I know where it comes from but there are Two Problems:

 

 

1st: This is like a Thesis Statement that Paul Gives....in the subsequent passages Paul gives the details:

 

(2 Thessalonians 2:3-9) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.  {5} Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?  {6} And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 

 

{7} For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:  {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"

 

 

The "he" is the Holy Spirit....

 

For him ("That Wicked") to be "revealed", the "RESTRAINER" must be removed! The "Restrainer" is The Holy Spirit and was given to the Body of Christ after Christ left.

 

(John 14:16) " And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

 

(John 14:26) " But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

 

(John 16:7) " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

 

Jesus had to Leave for the "Comforter to Come".  Who did he give it to......"The Church", FOREVER!  It appears from John, that they (Jesus and the Comforter) can't be on Earth @ the same time..

 

The Implication being that before Jesus Comes Back The Holy Spirit must be removed.

 

There is absolutely NO WAY the Comforter/RESTRAINER LEAVES THE CHURCH......HE'S THE EMBODIMENT OF IT!!

GOD alone "Restrains" evil, PERIOD, End of Story.  Read JOB for a full demonstration of that very fact.

 

 

If that's not enough (and I can't think of any reason whatsoever why it shouldn't be) then....

 

 

2nd: (2 Thessalonians 2:3) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

The Meaning of "Apostasia"

 

a Falling Away = Apostasia

 

Source: http://www.bibleprop...g/apostasia.htm

 

Apostasia (greek)

 

Summary of the ways in which Apostasia signifies Rapture in 2 Thess 2.

  

1.   The parallel between verse 3 and 7-8, showing the antichrist is revealed after the rapture.

2.   Words With Similar Definitions: methormizô, remove from one anchorage to another

3.   Words With Similar Definitions: metex-anistamai, Pass., move from one place to another
4.   Apostasia is translated as "Dissecto" in Latin, which has a meaning of a "spacial departure".
5.   Apostasia is translated as "departure" in many Bibles.
6 .  Liddell and Scott Dictionary authors note Apostasia is translated as "spacial departure" in one case in the 6th century.
7.   metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both mean "to fall away"
8.   metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both mean "to depart"
9.   metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both signify "change" as the rapture is a change.

10. metathesis, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both (in the word it's derrived from, aphistemi) can both mean "to remove".
11. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo (rapture in 1 Thess 4:17), can both mean "to take"
12. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo, can both mean "to seize"
13. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo, can both mean "to snatch away"
14. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, also carries the meaning "to marry, take a wife" which is a strong rapture parallel
15. Apostasia and harpazo both carry connotations of violence.  Apostaisia a violent revolt & rebellion, and harpazo "to seize by force" John 6:15
16 .Harpazo, like metathesis and aphistemi--root of apostasia, mean "to remove"
17. Harpazo is used in a peculiar way to signify "falling away from the faith" in Matthew 13:19, which is the main definition of apostasia.
18. The play on words of "stand in, present" enistemi and "stand off, absent" aphistemi, shows that apostasia, which comes from aphistemi, signifies the rapture, when people will be "absent".
19. ginomai, the word for "taken" (out of the way) in verse 7, the parallel of apostasia in verse 3, means "be married to" and the rapture is the marriage.
20. ginomai, the word for "taken" (out of the way) in verse 7, the parallel of apostasia in verse 3, means "to arise" and the rapture is when we rise up.
21. ginomai, the word for "taken" (out of the way) in verse 7, the parallel of apostasia in verse 3, signifies "of miracles" and the rapture will be a miracle.
22. Apostasia, as rapture, is fully consistent with apostasia as religious rebellion, and it is not an either/or definition or option, the word means both.
23. Those who say the pre trib rapture is false doctrine (an apostasy) unwittingly confirm that apostasia signifies rapture.


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#19
firestormx

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Is this not a sign that must precede the rapture?

 
No, because your Presupposition...."The man of sin must be revealed before the rapture." ...... Is Erroneous.

 


I have been really enjoying your conversation with each other but since he jumped over this one, I thought I would share where the support for his statement is in the bible.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,.
 
Whether you agree with this belief or not, this is where this understanding comes from. or at least one of the places it comes from.

 

 
 
 
====================================================================
 
 
Yes, I know where it comes from but there are Two Problems:
 
 
1st: This is like a Thesis Statement that Paul Gives....in the subsequent passages Paul gives the details:
 
(2 Thessalonians 2:3-9) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.  {5} Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?  {6} And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 
 
{7} For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.  {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:  {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"
 
 
The "he" is the Holy Spirit....
 
For him ("That Wicked") to be "revealed", the "RESTRAINER" must be removed! The "Restrainer" is The Holy Spirit and was given to the Body of Christ after Christ left.
 
(John 14:16) " And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
 
(John 14:26) " But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
 
(John 16:7) " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."
 
Jesus had to Leave for the "Comforter to Come".  Who did he give it to......"The Church", FOREVER!  It appears from John, that they (Jesus and the Comforter) can't be on Earth @ the same time..
 
The Implication being that before Jesus Comes Back The Holy Spirit must be removed.
 
There is absolutely NO WAY the Comforter/RESTRAINER LEAVES THE CHURCH......HE'S THE EMBODIMENT OF IT!!

GOD alone "Restrains" evil, PERIOD, End of Story.  Read JOB for a full demonstration of that very fact.
 
 
If that's not enough (and I can't think of any reason whatsoever why it shouldn't be) then....
 
 
2nd: (2 Thessalonians 2:3) "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 
The Meaning of "Apostasia"
 
a Falling Away = Apostasia
 
Source: http://www.bibleprop...g/apostasia.htm
 
Apostasia (greek)
 
Summary of the ways in which Apostasia signifies Rapture in 2 Thess 2.
  
1.   The parallel between verse 3 and 7-8, showing the antichrist is revealed after the rapture.
2.   Words With Similar Definitions: methormizô, remove from one anchorage to another
3.   Words With Similar Definitions: metex-anistamai, Pass., move from one place to another
4.   Apostasia is translated as "Dissecto" in Latin, which has a meaning of a "spacial departure".
5.   Apostasia is translated as "departure" in many Bibles.
6 .  Liddell and Scott Dictionary authors note Apostasia is translated as "spacial departure" in one case in the 6th century.
7.   metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both mean "to fall away"
8.   metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both mean "to depart"
9.   metatithemi, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both signify "change" as the rapture is a change.
10. metathesis, used for Enoch's rapture, and apostasia both (in the word it's derrived from, aphistemi) can both mean "to remove".
11. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo (rapture in 1 Thess 4:17), can both mean "to take"
12. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo, can both mean "to seize"
13. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, and harpazo, can both mean "to snatch away"
14. laqach, used for Enoch's rapture, also carries the meaning "to marry, take a wife" which is a strong rapture parallel
15. Apostasia and harpazo both carry connotations of violence.  Apostaisia a violent revolt & rebellion, and harpazo "to seize by force" John 6:15
16 .Harpazo, like metathesis and aphistemi--root of apostasia, mean "to remove"
17. Harpazo is used in a peculiar way to signify "falling away from the faith" in Matthew 13:19, which is the main definition of apostasia.
18. The play on words of "stand in, present" enistemi and "stand off, absent" aphistemi, shows that apostasia, which comes from aphistemi, signifies the rapture, when people will be "absent".
19. ginomai, the word for "taken" (out of the way) in verse 7, the parallel of apostasia in verse 3, means "be married to" and the rapture is the marriage.
20. ginomai, the word for "taken" (out of the way) in verse 7, the parallel of apostasia in verse 3, means "to arise" and the rapture is when we rise up.
21. ginomai, the word for "taken" (out of the way) in verse 7, the parallel of apostasia in verse 3, signifies "of miracles" and the rapture will be a miracle.
22. Apostasia, as rapture, is fully consistent with apostasia as religious rebellion, and it is not an either/or definition or option, the word means both.
23. Those who say the pre trib rapture is false doctrine (an apostasy) unwittingly confirm that apostasia signifies rapture.

 


I'm no expert of Hebrew and Greek, and I'm no scholar. But I do understand plain English. The verse I gave says very clearly that BEFORE we are gathered to Christ....The rapture...2 things must happen, the falling away and the man of sin be revealed. That's what the bible says in plain English, that's what I believe.

God bless you


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ENOCH2010

ENOCH2010

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As to the Holy Spirit being the restrainer, Enoch 2021 you only have your opinion. The Bible doesn't give the identity of the restrainer." plain and simple"

 

As to apostasy, in context with the scripture in question, apostasy means a falling away from the true beliefs of the Christians, into some strange doctrine." plain and simple"


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